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LeFou
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05-11-2005, 07:10 PM
Post subject: Seeking advice on Raising Stakes at home game
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Molinero and I have a game (you're all welcome to come by) that has been .10/.20 NL max $20 buyin.
Several kinda loose players in there. A couple who don't think twice about pushing/calling AI and just rebuying if they don't manage to suck out.
It's rare that there's no PFR. Partly that's my fault, I think  In sixhanded play I consider anything worth a play to be worth a raise.
Anyway, Molinero's idea is to raise the stakes to .25/.50 max $50 buyin. I have the roll to play this, but I can't get too excited, as I don't particularly relish the idea of crapshooting for $50 a pop.
I will, of course, whoop these guys in the long run But to be frank I don't even relish that idea very much, because when there are noticeable sums of money at stack and you know the guys pretty well it can get unfriendly.
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Grand_MasterB
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 466
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remember... you have no friends at the poker table... raise the stakes and take them for everything they have
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The_Cheat
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Takin yo' scratch
Posts: 173
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
remember... you have no friends at the poker table... raise the stakes and take them for everything they have
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that is a jacked up way of thinking man
fact is, when you do have friends at the table, you will piss them off if you win every time. I like to make money at the casino, online, or playing home games with people i dont like, but when friends are involved, I like to keep the stakes low and just chill. Lefou is pretty succesfull online (from what i can tell from your posts) so i dont know that raising the stakes is a good idea, especially if you are gonna take their money every night. nobody likes to think that their friend is playing them.
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Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Cheat
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The english prefer tea and crumpets. Americans prefer to kick your ass.
-'rilla
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Khabbi
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 381
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Every couple of weeks I have a $10 Freeze out tournament at my place. Most of the guys invovled are my friends and I know they that most of them are more interested in haning out and drinking than playin higher stakes.
There is always a couple guys (out of the 10 or 12 regulars) who want us to raise the buy-in. I tell those guys to either go play on-line or at the casino if they just want to play for the money.
I strongly believe that the home games (unless everyone is on board) should stay at the same stakes until the "crappier" guys feel like they want to give up more money.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
remember... you have no friends at the poker table... raise the stakes and take them for everything they have
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You want to be a friendly entity not a hated opponent at the poker table.
Also, will more than doubling the stakes change their play?
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Must go to Dallas....
Money can't buy friends.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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I must concur with the dissenting opinion. Home games are supposed to be nice relaxing nights out "with the guys." I know that when my friends and I play, if we lose money, then we say "ah; well, I would have spent that much on dinner and a movie anyway, so the money may as well go to my buddies instead of business owners."
The only time we decided to "raise the stakes" was that very last home game before we all went off to our freshman year at college, and that was just because the sentiment around was like "screw it. this is the last game." I ended up winning big that night while my best buddy lost like $60 because no matter what happened, he kept getting second best hands. I ended up giving him $30 back because it was just supposed to be a friendly game.
Home games are not supposed to turn your friends into your personal ATMs. Home games are supposed to be times when you hang out with your friends, with poker only in there because it's a relatively cheap form of entertainment.
I'd ask your buddies if they actually wanted to raise the stakes and that if they weren't comfortable with it, it'd be totally ok with you.
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Buckeye
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 53
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Like others have said - keep it low stakes at home. The last thing you need is resentment from winning or just staying even from intentionally losing on occassion. If anything, I think some players will get more aggressive - more money in the pot - as the stakes get higher = less friendly game. It's just no fun watching 2x as much money move away from you, so i'm told.
On the other hand, if $50 - $100 is like pocket change to everyone there, go for it. If not, just be prepared to lose 1 or 2 losing or barely break-even players who are on a budget. I lost 2 players going from a $10 tourney w/ rebuys to a $20 tourney with rebuy / addon - found a few more cowerkers to take thier spot pretty quick though.
My $0.02,
Buckeye
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Wow. Appreciate all the thoughts.
Triptanes: come on out. You and aokrongly can finish yr heated discussion.
Grand_Master: I agree with the cheat, at least a little. This one guy promised not to come back 'cause he was tired of losing 2-3 buyins a week (at $20 ea!). That's alright, but we all kinda felt bad.
The_Cheat, others: I didn't mean to convey that I'm walking off with everyone's money every week. I'm not. I'm profitable overall, but there are several pretty good players in there, too. Molinero in particular has a lot more B&M experience than i do.
Even making a steady 15BB/100 here isn't great money -- $8-10 over 2-3 hours? I don't think we get >50 hands/hr... so this game is about cameraderie, and the fact that I can drink beer while I play...
'rilla: I'm convinced that upping the stakes will change the way some of them play.
Players have said they're comfortable going to .25/.50 ... I sorta like the idea of starting with a tourney, maybe $15 FO ... so that people who don't want to play real high can leave after that. Unless they win it. In which case they better throw that wealth into the ring game ... 
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TN_POKER_MAN
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 19
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We tried to raise the stakes. Didn't like it. Folks got too serious and remained sober. We even had a couple regulars no-show the game. It changed the dynamics of our game for the worse.
Maybe you can split the difference by keeping the blinds the same, but raising the max buy-in to $30 or $35 for those that want (not everybody has to or will buy-in for the same amount).
You have to decide what your game is all about. Our game is just something for us to do while we sit around and drink beer while we poke fun at everybody.
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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I gotta agree. Home games with "friends" should be about having a good time socially. Unless the group as a whole is hardcore about playing "serious" poker. Out of the guys I play with. Myself and one other guy play with any regularity. And even the guy who plays regularly isn't a student of the game as I try to be.
Whenever I talk about upping the stakes there is a collective silence. Mostly because they know I'll be one of the winners of our SNG's we play. (I have yet to not place ITM with this group.) So for the sake of having a good time I stopped talking about playing for more money and focused on having fun. And its worked out for the best.
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SteveA
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 27
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by khabbi
There is always a couple guys (out of the 10 or 12 regulars) who want us to raise the buy-in. I tell those guys to either go play on-line or at the casino if they just want to play for the money.
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That's exactly what I tell my friends. The weird thing is that it's always the crappy players who want to raise the stakes...
IMO, home games shouldn't be about money.
Steve
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SteveA
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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If you're only doing it to reduce the excessive all-ins and preflop raising, then dont. If the players are playing irrationally at your current stakes, then this should just make it all the easier for you to kill the game. The idea that you will somehow win more if the other players play smarter does not make sense.
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnnyawe
If you're only doing it to reduce the excessive all-ins and preflop raising, then dont. If the players are playing irrationally at your current stakes, then this should just make it all the easier for you to kill the game. The idea that you will somehow win more if the other players play smarter does not make sense.
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yes but its frustrating and camping for cards in a home game is hardly entertaining.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Thats true.
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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i play every night with at least 9 friends, and we play $50 and $100 buyin, we all remain friends, i dont quite see what the big deal is...we all drink smoke and play poker and have a blast. once the game is over we all go out to a bar or a club and get hammered. if your friends get pissed off at you when you win then you have pretty shitty friends. and whoever said home games arent about the money, you're playing poker, what the hell do you think its about? if i just want to have fun why wouldnt i just go out to a bar, club, or party? i dont get it
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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woah, what?
IF you and your friends can afford to drop about $75 a night on average, kudos to you. THa tmeans that that friendly atmosphere is still there.
But if you're taking a cut of somebody paycheck when they're playing...every time, then I can see why some people would get pissed.
As far as "you're playing poker, what the hell do you think it's about"? It's abotu hanging out with your friends and having what basically amounts to a crapshoot.
Hell, some of my friends and I started changing up the games every hand so that nobody knew what the hell they were doing? (oh man, that was crazy). From draw to stud, to hold'em, to a bazillion variations of each, including this one called "the devil", which was crazy and was never meant to be played with all ins (too bad we did use all in's :P).
and as far as "if i just want to have fun, why wouldn't i just go out to a bar, club, or party?", it's because sometimes you just wanna hang out with your buddies. And when you do that, the money ends up going to your friends if you lose rather than to people you don't know; that's the difference.
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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eh i guess theres just other things id rather do for fun than play cards =\ we all play to win, and thats what makes it fun, competition is fun. nothing is worse in my opinion than a card game that lacks some seriousness
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