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Reverse IO - easy fold?

  
 
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sk8r_daniel
Old 07-26-2009, 04:35 AM     Post subject: Reverse IO - easy fold? #1 (permalink)  
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The Game:
Live/Electronic $1-$2 NL Hold'em

The Situation:
UTG is a solid tight player, can mix it up a little but mostly straightforward. UTG+1 is a bit of a gambler, but seems like he is sitting tight/straightforward on a big stack.

Effective Stack: $365

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 calls, SB calls, Hero checks (Tc8c).

Flop($16) (AcJd9c)
I lead out for $12 with straight and flush draws, UTG and UTG+1 call my bet.

Turn ($52) (5s)
I check, UTG bets $18, UTG+1 raises to $45. Hero...


......It seems like UTG has a hand, or wants to draw cheap. Now it seems that UTG has a really good hand. I haven't seen either player bluff. So can I fold this fearing that UTG has Kcxc or should I go for the huge pot, getting calls with sets/ 2 pair on the river?
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oskar
Old 07-26-2009, 05:33 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Unless you know the players, I would not assume that they understand how their bet sizing relates to the pot.
And he only has one left to act who overcalled the flop and the turn is a blank... so block/semi-bluffing doesn't make any sense really...
Against an unknown I wouldn't be surprised to see any two cards.

It will be hard to get any money on a spade river. Also UTG could raise all-in and UTG+1 folds which would be super gay.
It's close, but I'd still call... I think you need to donk the river. - They love to put you on the draw if a draw completes and probably won't v-bet, but you can probably get one of these "you drew out on me you donk, but I have top top so I has to payz" - calls.
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Fnord
Old 07-26-2009, 08:14 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Easy fold.

I wouldn't lead the flop either. You have soooo little fold equity on such a wet board. I'm just looking to put people on hands on the flop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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oskar
Old 07-26-2009, 09:35 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I don't get it... how is this an easy fold. I don't think folding is a mistake, but I wouldn't say it's easy 3 handed with the money behind.

... And you don't need fold equity on the flop. What do you want to do? c/r?
c/c donk if you hit?
c/c c/r?

Leading just seems like the easiest way to extract money.

< - Not gunna do teh maff cuz I iz lazy
but I think you need about 10% FE against one opponent going to the turn to break even... and it looks like that means you need 30% against each... should be doable... and that's only to break even with pot odds going to the turn...
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Fnord
Old 07-26-2009, 09:43 AM #5 (permalink)  
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How much money do you make drawing to non-nut hands out of position in 8 way limp pots?

I check call the flop because if a lot of money goes in we're really really unhappy about it. I also don't hate laying down a draw like this if we have some reason to think somone has a big hand or better draw. Folding the flop can't be a big mistake.

I'd call the turn if we could close the action. As-is it's an annoying fold. Really sucks that we built a big pot then turned our hand face up and gave the green light for someone to take it away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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oskar
Old 07-26-2009, 09:52 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 oh snap, 8 way?
did not see that... wtf!
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Fnord
Old 07-26-2009, 09:54 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
So you're saying that folding is an option once we make our draw?
No, folding is an option on the flop. If we check and the action goes crazy, I'm not happy putting all of my money in here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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oskar
Old 07-26-2009, 09:57 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 I just misread OP...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk8r_daniel
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 calls, SB calls, Hero checks (Tc8c).
and then he just carries on like it's another day at the office.

What Fnord said I guess... :P
I suck @ 8 way pots.
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
 
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Fnord
Old 07-26-2009, 10:02 AM #9 (permalink)  
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...also these guys are limping hands like AK, AQ, JJ and 99 so we can't adjust much for a board like this missing a lot of their range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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pokerfan
Old 07-26-2009, 05:40 PM #10 (permalink)  
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hero should definitely play passive with this hand against the field of opponents. I can't see any other options but c/c on the flop and fold on the turn as played. Hmmmm, your hand really suffers from high reversed implied odds.
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