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bjsaust
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08-04-2008, 08:26 PM
Post subject: Results analysis and opps stack sizes
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I figure here might be a good place to post this.
I was doing some reviews in Hold'em Manager recently and noticed a trend. I have more big losses than I have big wins (mostly my fault), and my big losses tend to be more $s than my big wins.
At first I thought I was having trouble getting ai with my big hands, but no, 90% of my big hands are all in. Got me to thinking. Are people just more willing to gamble with their smaller stacks? Are people folding earlier in the hand with bigger stacks because of the threat of big bets later in the hand?
Makes me wonder whether I should be taking that into account. Like my range for getting ai v's 60bbs should be different than my range for getting ai with 120bbs. Actually written like that it seems obvious. Back to "Playing the Player" though, is this something fairly standard? I mean, I know theres exceptions. However generally speaking do you think its the case that bigger stacks fold more?
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Just playing to improve.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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it seems like you are close to an important epiphany yourself. nice.
even though I don't really like the book, i'd suggest reading PNL pages 33-43.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Interestingly enough, I just started reading that this morning  .
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Just playing to improve.
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tom
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ATX
Posts: 158
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interestingly enough I'm in the middle of this book, just got done reading the stack to pot ratio section near pg 200 or so, which works closely with the commitment planning and starting/effective stack sizes. The idea of remaining big bets to scare is also directly related to Stack To Pot ratios, and how many pot size bets are left after preflop action.
STP might be a topic better discussed in a different thread in an effort not to highjack this thread, but I am curious on how to effectively use stack sizes with STP's in my regular game.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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SPR is overrated crapole imo
you have to assume your opponent is a brainless calling station, so that he'll fall nicely in your tarp.
but if you really are up against a brainless calling station, then whatever amount you bet is of no importance, since he/she 'll call anyway
Its rubbish and I'm really surprised at the amount of people who took this shit as gospel.
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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One of the blocks to this, is the complete crap I do stack folks with, but I think they're the exceptions when I look at the bigger picture. Its easy to remember the guy who stacked off with TPNK on a dry board when you're holding an overpair or bottom set.
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Just playing to improve.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
SPR is overrated crapole imo
you have to assume your opponent is a brainless calling station, so that he'll fall nicely in your tarp.
but if you really are up against a brainless calling station, then whatever amount you bet is of no importance, since he/she 'll call anyway
Its rubbish and I'm really surprised at the amount of people who took this shit as gospel.
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First I need to post a disclaimer that I've never read any books dealing with stack-pot-ratio but I do know the concept.
For years I've been posting about the importance of pot-size manipulation (i.e. aligning pot and stack sizes to fit your objective, taking into consideration countless factors). I think, along with timing tells, it's hugely underrated and underdiscussed by online poker players.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,818
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
For years I've been posting about the importance of pot-size manipulation (i.e. aligning pot and stack sizes to fit your objective, taking into consideration countless factors). I think it's hugely underrated and underdiscussed by online poker players.
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I think you're right. I'm starting to think about it, hopefully spenda will write an article and that will stimulate discussion among all. Manipulating opponent's spr and commitment are key...
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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sometimes it's just the implied threat
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
SPR is overrated crapole imo
you have to assume your opponent is a brainless calling station, so that he'll fall nicely in your tarp.
but if you really are up against a brainless calling station, then whatever amount you bet is of no importance, since he/she 'll call anyway
Its rubbish and I'm really surprised at the amount of people who took this shit as gospel.
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did you read the whole book? Can you be more specific?
I don't really know how to respond, I mean, there are some great concepts in there and moving people away from the book is really doing them a disservice.
I agree with Lukie, most players don't even consider what the new pot size will be when they bet. I mean there are scripts so you can bet X amount every time, that's about as terrible an idea as I can think of.
re OP,
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However generally speaking do you think its the case that bigger stacks fold more?
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yes
I don't understand the rest of it.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
I don't understand the rest of it.
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Basically over a recent portion of my hands, say 8 of my 10 biggest losing pots were all in and most of them were for a full buyin or more. Of my 8 biggest winning pots 8 out of 10 were also all in, but maybe only 3 were for a full buyin or more and the rest were for less.
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Just playing to improve.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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SPR is HUGE. So many people just don't get it.
As for getting it in good. My approach is to open small (3x) with a wide range then usually my hand reading does the rest. I play a lot of under 100bb pots. For the really big pots to happen usually someone else has to raise or some other big pot building action and from there I have a good feeling for where I'm at.
That said, I've beeing running more re-bluffs lately and that has gotten a lot of money in bad a couple times. However, I'm happy with my results so far on those plays.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I seem to be too scared to play that mode much Fnord  .
I'm halfway through PNL atm, and its explained clearly a few things I've felt in my gut but not been able to phrase before now. Things like 2-3 barrelling strong hands on boards that you really need to ask yourself how strong your hand is v's his range for continuing with you. I think its going to help my game a lot though with the stuff I hadnt come up with on my own.
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Just playing to improve.
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