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nUFamn
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02-17-2009, 03:02 PM
Post subject: QQ on button w/lots of action
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
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100/200 blinds, 3rd level of a 2-table live tournament.
I'm down from 4500 starting chips to about 3200 or so, and M=~10.5
I get QQ at CO. Fold, UTG+1 calls, +2 calls, fold fold, I pop it up to 700 (3.5x). (I figured that I'd get 1 or 2 callers, and then would shove any flop w/undercards.) SB raises to 1500, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.
So at this point I've got roughly 2500 chips left, and the pot has reached ~4100 chips.
What kind of respect do you give these guys?
As for reads, SB has been catching some cards early in the tourney, while the UTG+2 seems a bit spewey (calling an all-in earlier w/KJo).
Results in White below... respond before you read!
The results, as I expected:
I shoved here. I kinda respected SB's raise, as he has had some hands previously and was building a good stack, but not enough to fold QQ pre-flop. UTG+2 didn't worry me at all. I had a good hunch that he was in there hoping I would just call and he'd get pretty good odds with a pretty good hand.
SB fumbles over himself, asking the dealer if he's allowed to raise more or if he can only call me with the guy left to act. Makes me almost slap my forehead, cuz I'm pretty sure he doesn't just have AK at this point. So dealer educates him, then he shoves all-in too. UTG+2 folded, SB turns over KK.
I know, fairly standard. 
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LawDude
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02-17-2009, 06:11 PM
Post subject: Re: QQ on button w/lots of action
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#2 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nUFamn
100/200 blinds, 3rd level of a 2-table live tournament.
I'm down from 4500 starting chips to about 3200 or so, and M=~10.5
I get QQ at CO. Fold, UTG+1 calls, +2 calls, fold fold, I pop it up to 700 (3.5x). (I figured that I'd get 1 or 2 callers, and then would shove any flop w/undercards.) SB raises to 1500, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.
So at this point I've got roughly 2500 chips left, and the pot has reached ~4100 chips.
What kind of respect do you give these guys?
As for reads, SB has been catching some cards early in the tourney, while the UTG+2 seems a bit spewey (calling an all-in earlier w/KJo).
Results in White below... respond before you read!
The results, as I expected:
I shoved here. I kinda respected SB's raise, as he has had some hands previously and was building a good stack, but not enough to fold QQ pre-flop. UTG+2 didn't worry me at all. I had a good hunch that he was in there hoping I would just call and he'd get pretty good odds with a pretty good hand.
SB fumbles over himself, asking the dealer if he's allowed to raise more or if he can only call me with the guy left to act. Makes me almost slap my forehead, cuz I'm pretty sure he doesn't just have AK at this point. So dealer educates him, then he shoves all-in too. UTG+2 folded, SB turns over KK.
I know, fairly standard.
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I think that it depends on how nitty you prefer to play fairly early in tournaments. It's quite possible that QQ is the best hand pre-flop (although you really don't know about SB's range and maybe it's quite tight and he is just getting good cards). On the other hand, you are getting into a multi-way pot and basically making the type of play that will either give you the chip lead or bust you-- many, many pros would fold in this situation.
On balance, I'd probably fold it, but if I played a lot of tournaments, I might play the hand and rationalize that if I get knocked out, it's still a positive-expected value play over time.
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TAGurit
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
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i think you have to fold in this situation. SB could easily have you beat and you haven't really commited to the pot yet.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TAGurit
i think you have to fold in this situation. SB could easily have you beat and you haven't really commited to the pot yet.
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what about his M? it's going to be a lot lower if he folds
did you also take into consideration that hero's raising on the button? sb's re-raising range may be a lot wider, especially if hero has been abusing the button
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I get it all-in and am happy about it.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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Everyone's stack size is important.
Even though it's live, I would still fist pump a little before you move in. Perhaps under the table.
It's pretty close to just open shoving pre. You for sure can't give up on Kxx flops at all, Axx I guess maybe vs live nits
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I re-pop to 1k, shove any flop and expect worse hands to call on Axx boards.
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nUFamn
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
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I think I would've been happier about the play had I just called his raise pre-flop, and waited to see how he played the flop.
The flop was 3 undercards and 2 spades, turn was K of spades to seal the deal, and river was another X... I forget, I was walking away from the table when that K hit lol. So had I just called pre-, I don't see me folding to any bet on the flop, and if he'd opened I'm pretty sure I would've shoved over anything.
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"Let me tell ya how the internet screwed up poker, okay. When a guy sucks out on the river, on the internet, you cannot take the guy out in the parking lot and you cannot break his fuckin' knees." (Deuce Fairbanks)
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Ship ship pre.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nUFamn
I think I would've been happier about the play had I just called his raise pre-flop, and waited to see how he played the flop.
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I doubt you'll ever find a spot in any poker game where should should put 1/2 your stack in and then fold after. This for sure is not it. This was a cooler, you were supposed to go broke and you did, nh.
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nUFamn
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nUFamn
I think I would've been happier about the play had I just called his raise pre-flop, and waited to see how he played the flop.
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I doubt you'll ever find a spot in any poker game where should should put 1/2 your stack in and then fold after. This for sure is not it. This was a cooler, you were supposed to go broke and you did, nh. |
True, duly noted. Thanks all for the insights!
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I re-pop to 1k, shove any flop and expect worse hands to call on Axx boards.
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god do I love this play, I do this in live 1/2 no limit cash games when I am down to a short stack say 60 bucks.
I raise 15 bucks with pretty much any marginal hand, get 3 or 4 callers. Shove on any flop with my remaining 45 bucks and usually take it down right there! easy double up, even if i get callers I could still win more money if I hit.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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A lot of the equity other hands have against big pocket pairs comes from turn and river cards. By creating a flop decision, you will put them in a lot of difficult spots where they need to either make a bad call or fold away equity. Either way, you win.
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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yup, I love it.
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