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mathman1115
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04-08-2005, 05:13 PM
Post subject: Predicting players by their NL buy ins
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15
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So it seems to me that many times you can predict how a player is going to play at a NL ring game by the amount of his buy in. Let's use an example of .50/1 NL with a max buy in of $100. (This is what i mostly play but i think my thoughts could be applied to other limits)
$100 (max) buy in - this player has played at these limits a lot and is an above average player. Will play tight/aggressive but you can take many pots from him as he waits for top pair.
$50 (half) buy in - this player is probably used to buying in the max at lower levels so he is putting the same amount at risk just at a higher level. If he is uncomfortable at these limits, you can take his stack.
$20 (min) buy in - When a player buys in with the minimum, he lacks confidence at the table or the limits. He will protect the stack but become pot committed once he plays a hand.
Specific buy in (Like $75.50 or $67.85) - When a player buys in at a specific amount, that usually means this is the exact amount he is "ahead" for the day so he won't mind gambling that away. He may play aggressive so bluffing him may not work.
So does anyone agree/disagree with my thoughts? I find that after I watch a table a few rounds, some of these "profiles" that i attach to players buy ins seem to be true. I am not saying they are always true and i only use it early on until i can get a good read on players.
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You should've played those kings Mike..........
You're an a**hole..........
I know..........
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I don't think you can accurately draw any conclusions from a full buyin.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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'I don't think you can accurately draw any conclusions from a full buyin. '
Agree here, I'm an aggresive player and I always buy in for the max. I do generally give people credit for buying in for max that they are confident enough to sit with the max and are playing within their BR.
.5/1
less than 50 folks - I hate them, you can't play poker with them, raise pre flop call flop they are commited. Always super tight (looking for double up AA KK QQ JJ 10 10 AK) or wild (AI on any draw).
50 - not much but to me smells a little of fear, like they are more afraid to lose 100 than excited they might win 100.
Exact amounts - I like the thought here - also could be people trying to clean out a BR on a site you're done with. Either way I agree often aggresive players, maybe on tilt, not people I'm wild about bluffing at until I see them play a bit.
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Element187
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04-08-2005, 05:39 PM
Post subject: Re: Predicting players by their NL buy ins
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#4 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mathman1115
So it seems to me that many times you can predict how a player is going to play at a NL ring game by the amount of his buy in. Let's use an example of .50/1 NL with a max buy in of $100. (This is what i mostly play but i think my thoughts could be applied to other limits)
$100 (max) buy in - this player has played at these limits a lot and is an above average player. Will play tight/aggressive but you can take many pots from him as he waits for top pair.
$50 (half) buy in - this player is probably used to buying in the max at lower levels so he is putting the same amount at risk just at a higher level. If he is uncomfortable at these limits, you can take his stack.
$20 (min) buy in - When a player buys in with the minimum, he lacks confidence at the table or the limits. He will protect the stack but become pot committed once he plays a hand.
Specific buy in (Like $75.50 or $67.85) - When a player buys in at a specific amount, that usually means this is the exact amount he is "ahead" for the day so he won't mind gambling that away. He may play aggressive so bluffing him may not work.
So does anyone agree/disagree with my thoughts? I find that after I watch a table a few rounds, some of these "profiles" that i attach to players buy ins seem to be true. I am not saying they are always true and i only use it early on until i can get a good read on players.
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A+ observations..
although like rilla said, max buyin could mean he just clicks ok when sitting down at the table.. or it could mean its ilikeaces86 under a new name.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I usually try to judge someone's style by how they play, but that's just me.
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jmrogers7
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,112
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One thing to be aware of when someone buys in for the minimum. If you are acting before them be prepared to play hands that you are willing to call there stack with. These people tend to look for a small range of hands to go allin with. So, if you are acting before them and try to limp with marginally playable hands, you may end up losing a few small bets when these people go allin aafter you've limped nd you don't have a hand that you feel comfortable calling them with.
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"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun
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mathman1115
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15
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Oh, i definetly judge people by the way they play. I'm just trying to get reads before they play. The only info you have from them (unless you have played with them before) is how much their buy in is. I generally have more respect for a player who makes a full buy in (respect in a poker sense). I agree with jmrogers and his min buy in theory. I usually want small buyins (or small stacks) to my right so i can limp now and then without wondering if its a waste cause small buyin dude has JJ and wants to all in it. Thanks all for your thoughts.
BTW, i always do full buy ins as well, and i consider myself (extra) tight/aggressive.
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You should've played those kings Mike..........
You're an a**hole..........
I know..........
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cartilago77
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04-08-2005, 06:20 PM
Post subject: Re: Predicting players by their NL buy ins
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#8 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Tijuana Donkey Show
Posts: 180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mathman1115
Specific buy in (Like $75.50 or $67.85) - When a player buys in at a specific amount, that usually means this is the exact amount he is "ahead" for the day so he won't mind gambling that away. He may play aggressive so bluffing him may not work.
So does anyone agree/disagree with my thoughts? I find that after I watch a table a few rounds, some of these "profiles" that i attach to players buy ins seem to be true. I am not saying they are always true and i only use it early on until i can get a good read on players.
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A lot of times an odd amount like this can mean they have the last of their online bankroll on the table.
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Element187
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04-08-2005, 06:22 PM
Post subject: Re: Predicting players by their NL buy ins
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#9 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cartilago77
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mathman1115
Specific buy in (Like $75.50 or $67.85) - When a player buys in at a specific amount, that usually means this is the exact amount he is "ahead" for the day so he won't mind gambling that away. He may play aggressive so bluffing him may not work.
So does anyone agree/disagree with my thoughts? I find that after I watch a table a few rounds, some of these "profiles" that i attach to players buy ins seem to be true. I am not saying they are always true and i only use it early on until i can get a good read on players.
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A lot of times an odd amount like this can mean they have the last of their online bankroll on the table. |
if thats the case, bully them hard.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmrogers7
One thing to be aware of when someone buys in for the minimum. If you are acting before them be prepared to play hands that you are willing to call there stack with. These people tend to look for a small range of hands to go allin with. So, if you are acting before them and try to limp with marginally playable hands, you may end up losing a few small bets when these people go allin aafter you've limped nd you don't have a hand that you feel comfortable calling them with.
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The fact that he bought in for the minimum doesn't really say anything about how willing he is to call all-in with various hands. The player could be a total fish who thinks queen high is huge. Observing the player is the only way to understand him.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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The only read you can get off a full buyin is if they drop 20% of their stack relatively quickly and don't rebuy they are probably just ga,mblers, but usually by the time that happens you can get a normal read on them.
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JeffreyGB
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04-08-2005, 06:58 PM
Post subject: Re: Predicting players by their NL buy ins
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#12 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mathman1115
$20 (min) buy in - When a player buys in with the minimum, he lacks confidence at the table or the limits.
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This thinking is one of the reasons why I like buying in short stacked. People think you lack confidence, and because of that give no credit to you or your ability. Don't get too tied to these interpretations.
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jmrogers7
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,112
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
The fact that he bought in for the minimum doesn't really say anything about how willing he is to call all-in with various hands.
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Re-read my post. I didn't say a word about that player CALLING an allin. I said that they tend to wait for a good hand and go allin themselves.
I said that if you are acting before them that you need to be prepared to have a hand worthy of calling their allin.
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"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmrogers7
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
The fact that he bought in for the minimum doesn't really say anything about how willing he is to call all-in with various hands.
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Re-read my post. I didn't say a word about that player CALLING an allin. I said that they tend to wait for a good hand and go allin themselves.
I said that if you are acting before them that you need to be prepared to have a hand worthy of calling their allin. |
Oops. Misread it.
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mxmastermike
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04-08-2005, 09:28 PM
Post subject: Re: Predicting players by their NL buy ins
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#15 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: columbus
Posts: 2
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mathman1115
Specific buy in (Like $75.50 or $67.85) - When a player buys in at a specific amount, that usually means this is the exact amount he is "ahead" for the day so he won't mind gambling that away. He may play aggressive so bluffing him may not work.
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This might be someone with only that much left in their account.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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drawing conclusions from stack sizes is just silly
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Sometimes I misclick and buy-in for something other than the maximum. This usually means my judgement is off that day and am playing poorly.
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Its an interesting thought and should not be overlooked but I would just play the table and position and the cards etc...
I buy in for all kinds of limits either full buy-in or 1/2 or 3/4's. There's no reason to it. One thing is like on AP, you can buy into a .5/1 game for 200. I think that's excessive. Psychologically, I am much more comfortable moving around a 100 stack. The beats will hurt less and the money is still deep relative to the blinds. If my stack goes down I just rebuy.
Another thing I do, is buy in for less. Then get one of these tough guys who talk smack and pick up a few pots with some crazy play. Then I buy up to max in an attempt to bust them. They also take it personally and like to come after you.
So, just like in a tourny, stack size is a relevant consideration in the ring.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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studboyjoe
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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Can't draw conclusions from buy-ins, I see all types at $100NL buy-ins, even $20-$40 stacks that just reload and reload.
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Sharky: I've got good news and bad.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
drawing conclusions from stack sizes is just silly
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In the same reguard that Caro drawing conclusions from how you buyin is silly.
Probably less useful online, but there might be something here.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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People who buy in for an exact amount (ie $66.41) are often playing with the last of their bankroll (and thus may be on tilt or playing with scared money.)
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Sykedupp
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 550
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When I buyin for an exact amount (ie: $76.23) its because I have a certain amount (ie $2076.23) in my account, and I want to round it off to a squarer number (plus whatever i win)... no particular reason.
-Chris
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by soupie
That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twosevoff
People who buy in for an exact amount (ie $66.41) are often playing with the last of their bankroll (and thus may be on tilt or playing with scared money.)
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Or they have OCD.
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SavX
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30
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If a lot of people think people buying in with specif amounts like $87.43 is because they are weak/last money. Shouldn't you buy in with that to confuse people?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SavX
If a lot of people think people buying in with specif amounts like $87.43 is because they are weak/last money. Shouldn't you buy in with that to confuse people?
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Virtually no one thinks that.
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hagakure
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 215
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I think it's rather dangerous to predict player skill by their buyin amount as well. It sounds like a very desperate attempt to "find" some kind of tell in online poker. You're better off judging by the sound of the player's name or something. His name is KicksUrA$$? He must be good.
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Admerylous
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware
Posts: 108
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Say hi to the name "willplayanyA" on the Party skins in .50/1 limit. 
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hagakure
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 215
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"aceshere" was at a table in the Party freeroll tourney this morning...I never knew what he had. 
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hagakure
I think it's rather dangerous to predict player skill by their buyin amount as well. It sounds like a very desperate attempt to "find" some kind of tell in online poker. You're better off judging by the sound of the player's name or something. His name is KicksUrA$$? He must be good.
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First off i have never seen a good player who is playing with less than the full buyin, and although i'm sure they exist (like jeffreyGB) there aren't many of them.
Even if you are wrong, and you assume they are a fish when for some reason a shark is buying in for half the buyin. They still aren't a threat to you because you can only lose like half your stack to them or something.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Hmmm... this seems better fit with discussions of player types.
{Moved from Hold'em Strategies}
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Iconoclastic
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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I wouldn't buy in for less than the max if I feel I am above average at the table because that only lowers my EV.
However, if I had reads against a specific player and it was a HU table, and that player may not have reads on me, then I might consider hustling them aka buyin for a tiny amount and luring them into thinking I suck and once I bust buy-in for the full amount and take all their chips, while they keep buying back thinking they have a skill edge against me. There might be a specific type of player this can be effective against. Definitely worthy of further consideration.
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What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?
A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
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cassette
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 92
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I like to buy in for silly numbers like $69.69. It generally makes people think you're a goof and they will call you down more often.
Hey, every little bit helps...
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sykedupp
When I buyin for an exact amount (ie: $76.23) its because I have a certain amount (ie $2076.23) in my account, and I want to round it off to a squarer number (plus whatever i win)... no particular reason.
-Chris
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That'a me, exactly. Also, subconsciously, I fear losing, and it gives me an excuse not to bet (and potentially lose) the maximum.
At the levels I play (£25 NL), I have come across a few people who think it's fun to start with a short stack (say £5) and build it up to the max buyin (say £25). I guess as an exercise, there's value in that.
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