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LawDude
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04-04-2009, 08:49 AM
Post subject: please don't do this
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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9/18 limit at commerce. I am on the button with pocket kings.
5 players limp, I raise, SB folds, everyone else calls.
Flop is K95 rainbow. Checks to me. Seeing this as a relatively benign board, I decide to slowplay and check.
Turn is a 6, and board is now 4 suited. BB bets, UTG calls, 2 others also call. I raise. BB folds. UTG, who is loose aggressive, 3 bets. Folds to me, I call.
River is a 2. UTG bets. I say that I hate this (as sets of kings had lost THREE times already at the table, including one I lost to this same player when he hit a straight), but I have to call. (No way am I letting a LAG bluff me out of a huge pot in this situation.) He says 'don't call, I have a straight'. I ignore him and push my chips in. He turns over his hand and says, proudly, 'straight', while tablimg T9. I said 'that's not a straight, but this is a set of kings'.
I can't stand angle shooting, and that was what this was. He thought he could get me to muck. (Of course, I am tabling my set of kings even if he shows a straight. Why wouldn't I? But I guess he thought I might muck.)
The point is, please don't miscall your hand at showdown. It's cheating if you get someone to muck in this manner. And, the other point is, of course, that it is usually a good idea to table your hand at showdown instead of mucking. These angleshooters lurk among us.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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A little known fact is that it would seem Joe Hachem is known for doing this in live donkaments.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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There are live donkaments where you don't you're allowed to muck at showdown?
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Bet the flop please.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Bet the flop please.
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I have top set. There are only 4 hands that can draw out on me on the turn, and only with gutshots. Those hands are a tiny part of villains' ranges. Meanwhile, I can make about 50 percent more money on the hand if I slowplay it.
EV of slow play here > EV of betting out.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Does anyone fold anything to a flop bet?
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Does anyone fold anything to a flop bet?
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Sometimes. Or sometimes they will fold on later streets. Basically, you are going to get, at the most, 1 small bet and 2 big ones from 1-2 players if you bet it out. If you slowplay wisely, you will probably get 3 big bets from 1-2 players and 1 big bet from 1 more.
But you need to be far enough in front of villains' probable range to do it.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Does anyone fold anything to a flop bet?
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no. and sometimes not to a turn bet either!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Does anyone fold anything to a flop bet?
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no. and sometimes not to a turn bet either! |
I can't explain it in standard poker theory, but there's a lot of players at the live tables I play with who will call 1 street too many when they know they are beat. I guess it is to maintain the table image that they won't fold to aggression. (Of course, one can still two-barrel them, but that's another story.)
So, all other things being equal, if you were up against a bunch of players with made hands that are behind yours, you would want to make your aggressive play on the turn and not the flop, when the bets are bigger and they will call you down to the river.
Of course, all things are not equal, and given you want to collect from players drawing out (and put a price on their draw) as well as from calling stations, often there's no reason to slowplay. It's a judgment call, and I actually pretty rarely do it.
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Azazel
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 48
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
A little known fact is that it would seem Joe Hachem is known for doing this in live donkaments.
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Well at crown casino (melbourne) where he plays regularly (even has his own fucking tournament series) dealers always make all all in players flip there hands in tournaments.
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