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Pechanga Review (Temecula, CA)
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Manomanman
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07-18-2004, 04:04 AM
Post subject: Pechanga Review (Temecula, CA)
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 122
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There seems to be an increasing trend toward rake-raping players in these B&M casinos, and Pechanga is no exception. Clearly posted on the wall is, "$3 will be raked from every pot below 4-8 limit." Yes, if you get heads up with somebody on a flop and he folds, $3 will be STOLEN from your measly $6 pot. This seems to be the norm for casinos in the L.A. area. But on to the review.
Pechanga seems to follow the norm of the SoCal pokerroom. A variety of tables 2-4 up 5-10 with sparse higher limit tables. Waiting times vary from 0 to 10 minutes. And tons of fish. Yes, there are plenty of fish. On my last hand at the $2/4 (I won't go into the bad beats that led to my last hand) I have AKo in early position, raise once over another early position raise, and 5 people see the flop for $6 apiece. I flop my king, and am getting tons of action for the table with only a heart draw in sight. The turn brings a spade to add on a spade draw. The river brings a spade to complete jackass's SPADE draw (why anyone would pay so much to see that is beyond me).
I tried running a bluff against a pair of sevens, I flop a double bellybuster (10 9) with KQ7 on the flop (I know assbag has the seven - these calling stations were straight shooters, and gave away tons of tells). I raise all the way to the river, and he almost folds but calls and shows down bottom pair. I missed BOTH draws, and BOY did I wish I had another $100 to keep pounding away at idiots like that.
I can't understand why they had an NL tourney on Saturday morning $12-3, which is by and far their best tournament (weekday tourneys are 20-5, a ridiculous entry fee IMO). Over 300 people played the tourney in their "tourney" room (nice touch) and tourney structure was sound and clean with nothing but fish playing it. Old fish, young fish, red fish, blue fish. Of coure I lost to a bad beat.
Which leads me back to the rake. I hate it. I think it averages out to 18%.
Can anybody tell me why you would play against a rake like this? I certainly won't ever do it again. No matter how damn good you are, you're going to have to have luck to win. (For example, I put an early position raiser on AA/KK/AK, I muck KQ, and KQQ flops....DOH. My read was correct, she shows AA. Solid play just doesn't seem to pay off at these tables. Or was that fold solid play?)
And because I don't play with luck on my side, I must find a new pokerroom. I'm sad to hear Hollywood raising their rake.
I'm going to check out Lake Elsinore tomorrow, and I'll post a rant/review of that too. It'll probably suck.
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maxxscam
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 734
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not sure if you made some typos, but that isnt a double belly buster, it looks like a gutshot to me, and you are a fool to be raising that the whole way, he outplayed you and took your cash tough break, the casino i played at a casino for first time on tuesday, and it was 3/6 rake was 10% up to 3$ max, i dont think it was that bad, but damn they had a shit load of chips in the bucket at end of the night
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Manomanman
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 122
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Yes, it was a typo. I have 10 9, flop comes K J 7. An 8 or Q completes my straight, and a 9 or 10 gives me an overpair. According to FTR charts, it was basically a race.
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Manomanman
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 122
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From the perspective of profitability, I'm pretty sure that having a ton of fish at your table can't make up for the 10% rake. There are plenty of more fish online who are willing to give up bigger sums of cash in a no limit game.
Limit sucks, and casinos don't like nl cause they don't know how to rake it, and it's not popular. Limit is too damn forgiving to bad players, kinda like blackjack with a higher level of variance...especially given the fact that you're not going to see a lot of hands, most people are slow, stupid, etc.
I think the only way I got outplayed was [brace yourself] not calling enough bets. Yes, I said it. I think being a quasi-calling station pays off at these tables.
BTW, I can't stand playing at these microlimit tables because I get sick of folding top pair on the turn 4 out of 5 hands, and watching as gutshot after gutshot get shown down. I'll take an online nl game any day of the week over that crapshoot. And I still think it was incorrect to fold KQ even though I was able to put her on AA.
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Manomanman
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 122
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From the perspective of profitability, I'm pretty sure that having a ton of fish at your table can't make up for the 10% rake. There are plenty of more fish online who are willing to give up bigger sums of cash in a no limit game.
Limit sucks, and casinos don't like nl cause they don't know how to rake it, and it's not popular. Limit is too damn forgiving to bad players, kinda like blackjack with a higher level of variance...especially given the fact that you're not going to see a lot of hands, most people are slow, stupid, etc.
I think the only way I got outplayed was [brace yourself] not calling enough bets. Yes, I said it. I think being a quasi-calling station pays off at these tables.
BTW, I can't stand playing at these microlimit tables because I get sick of folding top pair on the turn 4 out of 5 hands, and watching as gutshot after gutshot get shown down. I'll take an online nl game any day of the week over a live crapshoot.
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davfagan
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Straight
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Warren, MI
Posts: 184
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On the KQ hand...I take it that the AA raised in early position (UTG, UTG+1?). If you were in late position holding KQ, against a table of fish, I think the right play is to call, and then if the flop is crap, fold (if you think the raiser had a hand).
Would you be complaining about the game if you had gotten lucky and hit all of your hands?
If 2/4 was their lowest limit, think of it this way. Online, some poker rooms have .01/.02 and those are completely horrible games with tons of fish and bad beats, if you aren't lucky. So I would expect that the lowest limit available would be full of bad players. They happened to get lucky on this particular night, and you didn't, such is life.
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"Why does this still seem like gambling to you!?"
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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yeah maxx, he had two inside straight draws, which is the equivalent of an open ended straight draw, plus the two over cards. It was a coinflip.
Against passive call stations (fish), I like to just take the two free cards when I have a draw. But I don't have a problem with the way Mano played it.
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Manomanman
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 122
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I'm really not complaining about the luck. I'm actually quite happy with the way I played. I got some good reads and I was able to fold to some monsters pretty well. I'm just not sure if folding KQ (or even J 10s for that matter) is correct in situations where you know there's going to be 3-4 seeing a raised flop, even if the guy with AA is showing you his cards. BTW, 2 5 of diamonds flushed out the AA heads up.
It's the rake that I'm complaining about. I think in the hour I lasted, I payed $15 to the rake. I had to pay a sixth of my bankroll just to have the privilege of sitting in the almighty Pachenga pokerroom. Thanks but no thanks.
Luck is luck is luck. If you can outlast the luck, then the game becomes profitable. I'm quite happy that 5 people are chasing runner-runners, and bottom pair calls all the way to the river "on a feeling". That tickles me to death.
I'm really looking forward to a 3/6 Omaha HiLo with a kill, full of old people, who are the absolute worst poker players in America. I'm pretty sure I could beat the rake on that one...
(BTW, why do so many old people avoid the holdem tables, going for stud/omaha instead? Is it cause they suck?)
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