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RockyMoose
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01-13-2012, 02:50 AM
Post subject: Overpair vs aggression
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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From today's 1/2NL session:
BB Villain is an aggressive, tatted-up guy with a gangsta ball-cap and a goatee. Plays a lot of hands. Haven't seen any notable showdowns.
UTG+1 limps, Hero (~$200) is MP1 with   and raises to $10.
BB calls, UTG calls.
Pot: $26 (after rake) Flop:   
BB donks for $20. UTG folds.
Hero?
As played: Hero raises to $60. Villain calls rather quickly.
Pot: $146. Turn: 
Villain shoves. He has me covered just barely.
It's around $130 to call. I tank. Villain is staring at me intensely. I look him in the eyes and he's staring back hard with a slightly smug look.
Hero?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Seems like he thinks you are weak. His shove on the turn looks more like a hand that picked up some more equity, like JhTh, that he isnt too worried about gambling if he goes get called by your likely AQ/KK type hand.
I think the smug look after your tank is more of a "hah sucker doesn't have a set, I am in good shape" kinda thing. Even if he has 2 pair we have good equity. I don't fold here.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,455
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Folding.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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Probably wouldn't raise the flop, as played probably calling.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Horrible flops are horrible.
My standard line with these types of hands in the past has always been similar to yours and then calling on the turn. But I agree with baudib that I think raising this flop is prolly not optimal. The draws are never folding and the 2 pair + are obv never folding either so raising does nothing except commit us to the hand with no real gained insight into our opp's ranges. On crappy flops like this I think the better approach is to go for the pot control/bluff catcher line and hunker down.
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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chardian: really interesting analysis. In my younger, nittier days, I'd call the flop and hunker down, mostly out of fear of building a big pot. My thinking this time around (now that I play more aggressively and try to plan my hands in advance) was to raise the flop to either win the hand or to make decisions on future streets easier by committing myself in most situations. But yeah, what a crappy flop for AA/KK, and as you said, anyone like that leading the flop OOP isn't likely to fold to a raise given his entire likely range. I hadn't really considered that. He's gotta know I'm going to c-bet most flops.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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My feeling is that we want to keep his range as wide as possible, if we get him to fold stuff like Q7 or KQ (unlikely anyway) it's really bad and if his continuing range is like QJ+ and huge combo draws it sucks. The risk of letting spades or something like QT get there for cheap is only a slightly negative side effect.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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Thoughts about Villain's play? I called and Villain showed  
I think Villain played this hand well. In fact, I'd like to think I'd have played it the same way if I had been him. (He had to think UTG was calling the $10 preflop raise.) His stop-n-go after my flop raise was good, wasn't it?
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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I think shoving is better than a small raise on flop. My default would be to flat flop and go from there but sitting here thinking about it I think shoving is better.
I would probably just shove over you on flop as villain, it is hard for him to get action if he hits his hand, esp the straight. Plus, he's ahead of QJ! let alone KK/AQ.
Your hand has similar problems which is why I would rather flat or shove flop, if you hit a T or K (or QJ9) it gives you the best hand a lot if you don't already have it but it will still be unclear what you should do with the last 140. Most of his draws have enough equity that you'd rather just win the $60 I think vs continue having no idea what run out you want.
I would like his play better if he only had one draw and was planning to bluff the other if need be.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,455
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woulda just jammed on you if i was the villain
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: maaaaaaaaaaate
Posts: 2,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
woulda just jammed on you if i was the villain
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+1, quite happily.
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