Online Tells survey taken

**Aceofone** · 07-12-2004 09:51 PM

I pulled this off of VCPoker.com in one news section.
Its not groundbreaking but it's the only formal study on the subject that I know of.
Not alot of this is new, but it does offer some insights into the way many players interpret something online.

Is it in your click? Just what are you giving away?
Like it or not, the chances are that you have a “tell”, a subconscious and often barely detectable way of giving out information on your poker hand. Whether it's a glint in your eye, the way your play with your chips or drumming your fingers when you've got a hand, the information is there to be picked up upon.

But in the online poker world, it's all a bit different. After all, you can't see your opponent, and your only contact with them is via a computer monitor. They could be signing and dancing after hitting their draw but you won't be any the wiser.

But in reality, is it really that different? In the interests of scientific poker research, we decided to survey regular online poker players to see what they thought about poker tells both online and in the physical world.

According to our respondents, the most common offline poker tells were the look in someone's eyes, followed by changes in their facial expression and they way they played with their poker chips. The top three online poker tells were:

Quickness to respond. A huge 76% of respondents said that a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand while quick bets on the turn or river can often indicate a strong hand.

Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength.

Automatic play. 68% of respondents said that a lazy approach to the auto-play buttons let a player slip into a set pattern of play, a break from which is a clear tell.
Perhaps surprisingly, online poker players are relaxed about their opponents play, with only 31% reporting that they actively look for tells in their opponents when they play online, significantly lower than offline players (58% of whom actively look for tells).

But it seems as though those who do actively look to glean information from their opponent's style of play prosper in the long run, and with the increasing amount of money going into the online game it's liable to be an area where players look to improve.

So how do you go about getting an edge on your fellow players? Our top three ways to win the psychological battle are:

Number 1: Pay attention. Just because you're not playing in a pot, doesn't mean you should read the paper or watch the television in between hands. Watch what your opponents do and study how they act; every time a hand gets to showdown the players involved are giving you a wealth of information about the starting hands they play, how they bet certain flops and how far they'll push a hand. They're telling you a great deal – at least make sure you're listening.

Number 2: Make notes. The beauty of playing online is that you can accumulate huge amounts of information on particular players. Take advantage of it and keep notes on players that you regularly come up against. Are they tight? Are they aggressive? Do they chase draws? The more you know about your opponent, the more of an edge you have.

Number 3: Vary your style of play. All good players, whether online or offline, vary their play to avoid becoming predictable and you should do the same. Don't always play the same way and keep your opponents guessing!

P.S Source: Big Slick Magazine available on www.VCPoker.com

**Manomanman** · 07-13-2004 02:06 AM

Doesn't seem very scientific, even though it claims to be.

What was their sample size? Who did they ask? Was the sample random?

A good article for entertainment, but not very helpful. If they were polling their readers, and most of them aren't good players, I wouldn't want to rely on their opinions.

**michael1123** · 07-13-2004 02:22 AM

"Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength."

That one I agree with wholeheartedly, at least with fish. In that case its just like in B&M games. They try to seem weak when they have a strong hand (take a LONG time then bet - try to make it look like they weren't going to bet then decided to bluff), and try to seem strong when they're weak (i.e. take a long time, then check - tries to make it seem like they nearly bet then decided to trap or something - I usually notice this is a draw, as they want a free card).

The second is more useful. Nearly every time I see that, if I bet big (usually with top pair or better), they fold.

**Aceofone** · 07-13-2004 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Manomanman

Doesn't seem very scientific, even though it claims to be.

What was their sample size? Who did they ask? Was the sample random?

A good article for entertainment, but not very helpful. If they were polling their readers, and most of them aren't good players, I wouldn't want to rely on their opinions.

I dont mean to say that online tells are relevant, but rather a certain % of players feel that speed to bet/slowness to bet etc. means something. For Example: 80% of players feel that auto betting means a strong hand, this can be used to your advantage by autobetting if you sense weakness and may increase your chances of taking down the pot.

Furthermore, very few players change gears in online play, most have a set standard (ie 4XBB for group 0 hands etc).

**xbones** · 07-13-2004 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Aceofone

Quickness to respond. A huge 76% of respondents said that a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand while quick bets on the turn or river can often indicate a strong hand.

Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength.

So, basically a check indicates weakness?

**michael1123** · 07-13-2004 07:17 PM

Haha. But seriously, if they're going for a check raise, I've never seen a guy take 10 seconds before they do it. When they wait a ridiculous long time to check, they're always looking for a cheap card for their draw.

**johnnyawe** · 07-13-2004 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by xbones

Originally Posted by Aceofone

Quickness to respond. A huge 76% of respondents said that a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand while quick bets on the turn or river can often indicate a strong hand.

Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength.

So, basically a check indicates weakness?

Yeah, I had to chuckle at that too. The survey respondants said that a check (with and without pause) indicates weakness and a raise or bet (with and without pause) indicates strength. No duh.

My estimation of online tells:

Auto-check = did not catch anything on the flop.
Long pause then call = draw hand (watch out for fakers though)
Medium pause then raise = monster
Long pause then check = monster

**johnnyawe** · 07-13-2004 10:54 PM

Actually the most amazing thing in that survey was that only 31% of respondants said they actively pay attention for online tells.

**michael1123** · 07-14-2004 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by TheNatural

Long pause then check = monster

I've honestly never seen that, if you mean the ridiculously long variety (to where their time limit is almost up).

**johnnyawe** · 07-14-2004 02:23 AM

no, not that long.

07-12-2004 09:51 PM #1
Aceofone View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 431	Online Tells survey taken I pulled this off of VCPoker.com in one news section. Its not groundbreaking but it's the only formal study on the subject that I know of. Not alot of this is new, but it does offer some insights into the way many players interpret something online. Is it in your click? Just what are you giving away? Like it or not, the chances are that you have a “tell”, a subconscious and often barely detectable way of giving out information on your poker hand. Whether it's a glint in your eye, the way your play with your chips or drumming your fingers when you've got a hand, the information is there to be picked up upon. But in the online poker world, it's all a bit different. After all, you can't see your opponent, and your only contact with them is via a computer monitor. They could be signing and dancing after hitting their draw but you won't be any the wiser. But in reality, is it really that different? In the interests of scientific poker research, we decided to survey regular online poker players to see what they thought about poker tells both online and in the physical world. According to our respondents, the most common offline poker tells were the look in someone's eyes, followed by changes in their facial expression and they way they played with their poker chips. The top three online poker tells were: Quickness to respond. A huge 76% of respondents said that a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand while quick bets on the turn or river can often indicate a strong hand. Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength. Automatic play. 68% of respondents said that a lazy approach to the auto-play buttons let a player slip into a set pattern of play, a break from which is a clear tell. Perhaps surprisingly, online poker players are relaxed about their opponents play, with only 31% reporting that they actively look for tells in their opponents when they play online, significantly lower than offline players (58% of whom actively look for tells). But it seems as though those who do actively look to glean information from their opponent's style of play prosper in the long run, and with the increasing amount of money going into the online game it's liable to be an area where players look to improve. So how do you go about getting an edge on your fellow players? Our top three ways to win the psychological battle are: Number 1: Pay attention. Just because you're not playing in a pot, doesn't mean you should read the paper or watch the television in between hands. Watch what your opponents do and study how they act; every time a hand gets to showdown the players involved are giving you a wealth of information about the starting hands they play, how they bet certain flops and how far they'll push a hand. They're telling you a great deal – at least make sure you're listening. Number 2: Make notes. The beauty of playing online is that you can accumulate huge amounts of information on particular players. Take advantage of it and keep notes on players that you regularly come up against. Are they tight? Are they aggressive? Do they chase draws? The more you know about your opponent, the more of an edge you have. Number 3: Vary your style of play. All good players, whether online or offline, vary their play to avoid becoming predictable and you should do the same. Don't always play the same way and keep your opponents guessing! P.S Source: Big Slick Magazine available on www.VCPoker.com

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07-13-2004 02:06 AM #2
Manomanman View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2004 Posts 97	Doesn't seem very scientific, even though it claims to be. What was their sample size? Who did they ask? Was the sample random? A good article for entertainment, but not very helpful. If they were polling their readers, and most of them aren't good players, I wouldn't want to rely on their opinions.

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07-13-2004 02:22 AM #3
michael1123 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,328 Location Rochester Hills, MI	"Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength." That one I agree with wholeheartedly, at least with fish. In that case its just like in B&M games. They try to seem weak when they have a strong hand (take a LONG time then bet - try to make it look like they weren't going to bet then decided to bluff), and try to seem strong when they're weak (i.e. take a long time, then check - tries to make it seem like they nearly bet then decided to trap or something - I usually notice this is a draw, as they want a free card). The second is more useful. Nearly every time I see that, if I bet big (usually with top pair or better), they fold.

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07-13-2004 03:01 AM #4
Aceofone View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 431	Originally Posted by Manomanman Doesn't seem very scientific, even though it claims to be. What was their sample size? Who did they ask? Was the sample random? A good article for entertainment, but not very helpful. If they were polling their readers, and most of them aren't good players, I wouldn't want to rely on their opinions. I dont mean to say that online tells are relevant, but rather a certain % of players feel that speed to bet/slowness to bet etc. means something. For Example: 80% of players feel that auto betting means a strong hand, this can be used to your advantage by autobetting if you sense weakness and may increase your chances of taking down the pot. Furthermore, very few players change gears in online play, most have a set standard (ie 4XBB for group 0 hands etc).

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07-13-2004 08:43 AM #5
xbones View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2004 Posts 207 Location Isle of Man, GB	Re: Online Tells survey taken Originally Posted by Aceofone Quickness to respond. A huge 76% of respondents said that a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand while quick bets on the turn or river can often indicate a strong hand. Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength. So, basically a check indicates weakness?

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07-13-2004 07:17 PM #6
michael1123 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,328 Location Rochester Hills, MI	Haha. But seriously, if they're going for a check raise, I've never seen a guy take 10 seconds before they do it. When they wait a ridiculous long time to check, they're always looking for a cheap card for their draw.

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07-13-2004 10:50 PM #7
johnnyawe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2004 Posts 721 Location San Francisco	Re: Online Tells survey taken Originally Posted by xbones Originally Posted by Aceofone Quickness to respond. A huge 76% of respondents said that a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand while quick bets on the turn or river can often indicate a strong hand. Slowness to respond. 73% of respondents felt that a pause followed by a check indicated weakness while a pause followed by a raise indicated strength. So, basically a check indicates weakness? Yeah, I had to chuckle at that too. The survey respondants said that a check (with and without pause) indicates weakness and a raise or bet (with and without pause) indicates strength. No duh. My estimation of online tells: Auto-check = did not catch anything on the flop. Long pause then call = draw hand (watch out for fakers though) Medium pause then raise = monster Long pause then check = monster

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07-13-2004 10:54 PM #8
johnnyawe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2004 Posts 721 Location San Francisco	Actually the most amazing thing in that survey was that only 31% of respondants said they actively pay attention for online tells.

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07-14-2004 12:57 AM #9
michael1123 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,328 Location Rochester Hills, MI	Re: Online Tells survey taken Originally Posted by TheNatural Long pause then check = monster I've honestly never seen that, if you mean the ridiculously long variety (to where their time limit is almost up).

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07-14-2004 02:23 AM #10
johnnyawe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2004 Posts 721 Location San Francisco	no, not that long.

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