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Beck

09-25-2008, 06:43 AM Post subject: new to live

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 410

I recently started playing a decent amount live.
often the games are 4 person and the players are supper loose, seeing about 80-85% of the flops. I never play this loose online even if it gets to 4 persons at a table but because everyone is loose I feel like I should loosen up as well. What do you guys think, and how far should I go?

I mean if I am SB and everyone limps and I have 84o should I call?
what about k5s on the button. If i raise everyone usually calls. like I said very very loose table.

Another table I play is exactly the same also ends up about 4 handed, but here they are not just loose, but also PFR about 30-35%% of the time. How do I handle this table.

-Beck

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Beck

09-28-2008, 05:11 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 410

no one answers, I understand the question is just too broad. Let me make it a little more narrow. Usually players buy in short 40-50BB. Usually 40BB. But they do re-buy. I usually buy in more to make sure I have everyone covered.

So my problem is, should I keep calling away with all connectors and suited cards in hopes of getting something big and stacking someone? I end up slowly dwindling blind after blind, winning small pots and possibly loosing big ones. or should I play a bit tighter making a move with a good hands then. i think regardless if I raise preflop I get 4 callers. And it is hard to play JJ vs 3 other people. It is even harder to play j9s vs 3 other people when the flop is KJ2.

How loose are you guys in these types of situations?

-beck

-Beck

fulksy

09-28-2008, 05:39 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Edmonton,Canada

Posts: 1,018

what stake are you playing?

i play 1/2 nl live and do fairly well, its the same way at least 50% of the table is super loose, i tend to still play relativly tight because i find it easy to get payed when you have a hand. i don't play my SB with garbage or the button with a weak hand when lots of limpers, but i will see limped pots on the button/sb with suited connectors and gappers, because i find you can win a lot when you hit a big hand in position.

i only play about once a week live, so most people probably have better opinions but this seems to work for me

cowboyardee

09-28-2008, 07:38 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck

The problem with answering this question is that there is no especially good rule as to how loose you should play in live games. In a short-handed live game, you should be carefully noting holes in your opponents' games (the holes are often huge and obvious) and figuring out the optimal way to win as much money as you can from them. That translates to playing as loose or tight as the table dictates. Of course, saying that does you no good. I'll elaborate...

Your opponents see 80-85% of flops. Additionally, if you raised a hand pre, you think you would still get 4 callers. What does that mean?

Well for starters, that means you can probably get away with overbetting the shit out of your good hands preflop and still get callers. That is +EV, obv. It is your job to find out just how much you can overbet these hands before they start folding and also to stay ahead of the table if they start to catch on (shouldn't be hard). It also means that preflop you shouldn't raise medium hands out of position or bad hands at all. You're raising for value only, not fold equity or isolation.

Your opponents tend to buy in short, with like 40-50BB, but they do rebuy. Hmm.

When you combine this with their very loose play preflop, this should tend to tighten you up preflop. Small stack sizes mean less room for creative play on later streets and presumably less postflop advantage for you. Multiple loose players with small stacks means more showdowns. More showdowns means the best hand wins a lot, which means you want to be there with said best hand. 84o for example is not a good hand to play because you will rarely be confident that it is the best hand. Small stack sizes mean less implied odds. This also means hands like AJo appreciate in value while hands like 6 7s go down. (You're buying in full though, right?)

But there are some major unknown factors. Are your opponents very loose on all streets or just preflop? Do they like to take big stabs at pots or are they just very passive? Do they consistently under- or overbet when trying to protect their made hands? Are they willing to call huge bets with terrible pot odds on draws? Are there also skilled players present who can take advantage if you wildly unbalance your game for the sake of draining off every bit of value you can from the donks? Are said skilled players doing the same and thus leaving themselves exposed?

More generally, live games with bad players are often good places to loosen up as compared to your regular style. The reason -- bad play postflop means greater implied odds, thus increasing the value of all of your hands. (Note-- this does not by any means imply that all of your hands are playable from any position or in any situation).

But your focus should be at all times on how to tailor your play to extract as much value from the likely hideous playstyles of your opponents at that particular session.

Fnord

09-28-2008, 07:59 PM Post subject: Re: new to live

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck

I mean if I am SB and everyone limps and I have 84o should I call?

No. I fold here a lot for table image.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck

what about k5s on the button. If i raise everyone usually calls. like I said very very loose table.

95% call 5% raise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Beck

09-29-2008, 06:54 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 410

thanx for the great advice guys.

To answer some of the questions above.
Yes I always make sure I have everyone covered at the table so If they buy 40BB I buy 60BB. If they buy 50BB I buy 75BB. I always make sure to have everyone covered.

Most of the villians are loose at the very least on the flop, and sometimes the turn. They tend to tighten up on the river, but half the field is willing to go all-in with top pair and a good kicker. Definitely 2 pair.

The players:
1) usually buys 40BB. calls 90% preflop, and 80% raises preflop, even if you bet 6xBB he will call. When he does raise about 90% of the time he will c-bet. If he calls your raise and is 1st to act and hits something he bets out 1st. He is willing to fold under some strong pressor and aggression

2) more or less a calling station. will call with medium pairs or A high hoping to hit the turn. sees about 75-85% of the flops. never raises big PP. will raise and cbet AK AQ and low PP. probably the worst player there.

3) decent player. Plays a lot online, prefers tournies. Pretty loose pre-flop. has decent reads and always gives me a run for my money. He now starts buying in at whatever I buy in at. He is tricky, willing to check top pair to see what happens. He will call raises with Ax, KQ, KJ, maybe worse, most connector, and all pairs. But he is too loose calls to much and actually ends up not doing to hot at these tables. He is a thinking player.

4) every now and then someone else comes, but the above are the regulars.

Thats it. I cant wait to play again with these guys

-beck

-Beck

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