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Fnord
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02-16-2009, 06:28 AM
Post subject: NEVER MUCK YOUR HAND ON THE RIVER UNTIL YOU SEE A BETTER ONE
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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$5/$10 NL, the usual clowns. My image is kinda tight/passivish.
Limper, raise to $35, I call on the button with :Qh: :Jh:, a couple other folks call too.
5 to the flop, $175 in the pot.
:Ts:  
Raiser bets $75, fold, I think he's weak between his betting sizes and how he splashed his little bet into the pot. I raise to $200. Calling station thinks about it and mucks. Raiser calls (opps!)
Turn is a blank. Checked through.
River blanks. Checked through.
"I missed"
"Ace high is good"
"I said, I missed"
I table my hand.
He checks his hand 3 times, "that's good" *facepalm*, checks hand again, mucks.
Over a $500 pot won because I knew how to fucking showdown my fucking hand. Earlier tonight some guy threw a fit when he lost a somewhat bigger pot because some clown called his Ace High river bluff for $250 with KQo unimproved. He mucked right after he was called.
I guarentee you this will win you a pot every now and then and never cost you one. That's a better record than most bullshit tells.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Correct-a-mundo. I would also add that I never hand my cards back to the dealer until he ships the pot. An old rounder once told me that if you ever have a dispute with the management over a hand you'd better still have the cards so you can prove your point. Once they hit that muck, they aren't ever coming back out.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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That's what I call thin value... 
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tpb221
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 69
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Yep. It's even worse when they call a hand they don't have. Always see the cards before you muck. Won a $300 pot last time in vegas this way. Player1 calls hand, player2 mucks, I show, he didn't have it. Player 2 would have won, idiot.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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"You get shot in some neighborhoods for that shit."
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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TAGurit
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
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nice play. never happened to me but ive seen it go down with other players. stupid way to lose a pot. smart way to win it 
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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You are absolutely completely right about this.
If I could spin a more general point from this, I think a lot of live players are so concerned about showing a bad hand and providing information to other players that when there's a showdown that's all they are concerned with, rather than figuring out if they won the hand.
I suspect that until you get into pretty high stakes games, the amount of additional money you will win by mucking hands at showdown and concealing information from other players is going to be close to zero. It's not like most low stakes players process information anyways. In contrast, the amount of additional money you will win by properly showing down your hands is going to be somewhat more than zero.
Thus, I would recommend that any live low-stakes player just go ahead and show every hand at showdown, unless you are at a table that truly has good players who process information and you are projecting a table image that might be thwarted by showing the hand.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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If I think I have the best hand I just table it. If I get it all in with like 88 or AQ or something pre-flop I still table my hand and sometimes my opponent shows me the courtesy of doing the same.
Protecting yourself from a lost pot is vastly more important than hiding information from my opponents who are really terrible at poker anyway. Besides, it's funny listening to them bitching about folding the best hand before the money went in...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tpb221
Yep. It's even worse when they call a hand they don't have. Always see the cards before you muck. Won a $300 pot last time in vegas this way. Player1 calls hand, player2 mucks, I show, he didn't have it. Player 2 would have won, idiot.
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QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the record, miscalling your hand once will give you at worst a warning. You may be asked to leave the casnio if you regularly and intentially miscall your hand. I've never heard of someone having a pot taken away from them on a miscalled hand angleshoot.
Allways make sure you *SEE* a better hand.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
I would also add that I never hand my cards back to the dealer until he ships the pot.
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All the other hands face up or mucked is good enough for me. There is a camera in most of the rooms I play at and the other players will also help keep things in line.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tpb221
Yep. It's even worse when they call a hand they don't have. Always see the cards before you muck. Won a $300 pot last time in vegas this way. Player1 calls hand, player2 mucks, I show, he didn't have it. Player 2 would have won, idiot.
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QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the record, miscalling your hand once will give you at worst a warning. You may be asked to leave the casnio if you regularly and intentially miscall your hand. I've never heard of someone having a pot taken away from them on a miscalled hand angleshoot.
Allways make sure you *SEE* a better hand. |
There's a huge problem with miscalling in the casino I usually frequent. Some of the players think it is really cute to call out "straight" when they have 4 cards to a straight or "flush" when they have 4 cards to a flush. I don't know if they are just joking around or whether they are seriously trying to be mis-awarded a pot. (If it is the latter, it is a pretty low probability play because usually 2 or 3 of the players at the table immediately correct the mis-caller.)
The casino is aware of the issue, but they don't do anything about it, probably because these guys are mostly regulars and they don't want to lose the business.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Cards speak.
If the game is good, consider it a sucker privilage.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Cards speak.
If the game is good, consider it a sucker privilage.
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Obviously. In the scheme of things, it's a minor headache. But it still gives me a headache!
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Mr Bigcity
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Auburn
Posts: 122
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wow some good information in this thread. 5 stars
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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Related note: you have to show two cards to win the hand. Just showing your paired high card (or flush card, or whatever) is not enough. Saw a guy almost lose a pot because he started to muck his second card after just showing the winning Ace. Dealer stopped him in time.
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2ndline.4thstreet
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 120
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A lot of great info in this thread we all think we know until we tilt and muck a winning hand (or our crappy kicker  )
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RockyMoose
Related note: you have to show two cards to win the hand. Just showing your paired high card (or flush card, or whatever) is not enough. Saw a guy almost lose a pot because he started to muck his second card after just showing the winning Ace. Dealer stopped him in time.
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QFT
Showing one is the ghey.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RockyMoose
Related note: you have to show two cards to win the hand. Just showing your paired high card (or flush card, or whatever) is not enough. Saw a guy almost lose a pot because he started to muck his second card after just showing the winning Ace. Dealer stopped him in time.
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This is the rule, though I have found at a lot of places in L.A. it is honored in the breach. Some players are real jerks about not wanting you to see that they were, for instance, calling down or raising with a terrible kicker. And many of the dealers won't enforce it even if you insist, unless it is an all-in pot and you ask to show all hands.
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Knytestorme
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
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Yeah, a few angle shooters will use comments like "Can you beat 2 pair" or something at showdown without showing their cards hoping opponent will muck......never ever ever muck cards until the pot has been awarded.
Also, don't be "that guy" and refuse to show your cards when called. It always tilts me when people do it, even if it's on a poker show...you were called not just because opponent thought they had the best hand and the rules state a player that's called must show first.
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