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!Luck

05-14-2010, 05:54 AM Post subject: My Live poker mistakes

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2004

Location: Under a bridge

Posts: 1,367

I went to the 50bb home game again. I made some glaring mistakes and I want confirmation.

Stacks 75BB or so

Loose player who loves to check raise bluff and slow play limps in EP
im CO:Q7dd I raise to 7 Get two callers

Flop is

Ad5ctd

All players check I check

Turn is 9d

I bet 5 one player folds the other calls

River is 8c

I bet 15 get raised to 50 and I don't ship.

Huge mistake on my part right?

The best thing I can say about the next hand is that I did not go on tilt afterward.

I have KJhh CO

I raise 7 get 2 callers

One of the caller has about 75 bb and is crazy bluffer/calling station loves action.

Flop comes 235r

He bets into me 10, I call planing on raising almost any turn card he can be donk betting here with anything, though he is more inclined to donk bet low flops.

Turn is 7 now there are two suits out there he bets 17

and this is where I make my mistake I raise it to 34, I think if I raise here I need to bump it to 50, otherwise it just too tempting to call.

River is K I bet 35 because I assume he would pay me off with top pair and middle pair, but I feel this is decent size mistake, but then he min raises me and I pay him off he had K5o.

Overall, I made money in this game but I keep misunderstanding the game a bit. I need to play tighter and I need to steal less, but my habits from online are strong.

I am a bit confused by this game, for example I had A4o on the CO and 2 limps I bump to 9 get to callers. flop is AQT two suited and this guy donk bets into me and the other person calls. I call here turn is a miss he bets again the other guy calls I fold.

River comes a 5 he bets a third time the other guy folds 9to

winner shows A5o. I am conflicted since I am getting callers withT9o so I can raise A5o but I can't read them well enough to go 3 streets with just pair of aces.

Maybe my CO raising range should be A9o+77+A7s+? Still don't know. Having issues valuing hands and things like 89s suck when you are only 50 deep and will get called down with middle pair.

Lastly, I was invited to another semi home game (has a bigger buyin 150 with 1/2 blinds and 3 rake) They also play omaha. I know nothing of the game but I have no great respect for any one of there games, I am tempted to play, but I suspect I have a far greater edge in holdem, though they say that sometimes play mixed omaha holdem not sure what to do.

I really enjoy the home games cause I know that I have an edge over most if not all players and I need to adapt.

!luck

P.S. I keep eking out a profit but I feel there is tons of room to improve.

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idfk

05-14-2010, 08:07 AM

#2 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Melboure, Australia

Posts: 28

Looks like your biggest problem is bet sizing and your inability to bluff correctly.

You need to pay more attention to the pot sizes and your players buying prices. If you want them to call, bet within their buying range and just outside if you dont. Do this with a made hand but also pay attention to it when you are stealing.

If you want to steal correctly you hand has to be able to tell a story from start to finish. Can you represent a range? If you cant then dont even try and bluff... EVER. If you can then get your betsizing fixed and take andvantage of the given situation. You know how to range a player so assume they can range you too.

In your post you mention you raise to $7 with 2 callers. Are the blinds $1/2 or what? In the same example you check the flop with an Ace on the table? What is your range? You then bet $5 on the turn, in to what? A $25 pot? You are asking for trouble. Lead the flop for $15-20 and represent range. If you get called you have 2 choices - GTFO or barrel that shit again and look for value. How much would you bet if you had a set? Think about how much your opponents will call and how much it will take for them to lay a hand down.

Example 2 - Oh you played this hand so badly. You cant play this flop so passively with nothing. You either need to fold or raise then and there and represent the range of an overpair or straight. Your min raise on the turn is bullshit and you are getting called by a wide range here. Unfortunate that you hit top pair on the river but you deserve to lose the hand since it is the only way you may learn from it.

Your raising range in the co can be whatever you want it to be as long as you can represent it throughout the remainder of the hand. Focus more on your betsizing and position rather than your cards. Eg if the blinds are 1/2 and you are in the co and you have 4 limpers and you have JJ-QQ. What are you raising to? Apply this same amount to 83o and that is how you raise in LP.

Lastly, if you dont know how to play ohama why would you go to the game you were invited to?

I could write more but I dont think that anyone pays attention to my posts :/

oskar

05-14-2010, 09:37 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

iso in the first hand is too loose imo. Especially if you expect to get called a lot, and you don't realize it when you get the best possible flop to cbet at.
and of course ship it as played.

didn't read past the flop call in hand 2. It's obviously terrible given reads.

!Luck

05-14-2010, 03:49 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2004

Location: Under a bridge

Posts: 1,367

Thanks guys. I agree. In online play at tend to c-bet a high percentage of time, i felt at THIS game, where poeple rarely fold all my C-bets have to be for value. I do not know if that is too limiting way to think.

!luck

Rupeni

05-20-2010, 08:39 AM

#5 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2010

Posts: 51

hey idfk, I'm taking notice of your post! I just read something very interesting in "theory of poker" by Sklanksy.... he says that in loose games you should widen your "made hands" range i.e. value your made hands more like giving more value to top pair two pair etc.... but tighten up your bluffs and semi bluffs as you're getting very little fold equity.

Omaha mate, such a fun game - especially playing against donks. If its anythign like the cash game at my local casino, you can get away with playing TONNES of hands preflop (hardly any pre flop raising) and nutmining, although you'll obviously wanna play some non nut hands for value without going too large. Only bluffing in very good spots. Pre flop you're looking for hands that make the nuts, cards that work well together, and bigger cards are better (make higher two pairs, higher straights, higher flushes and full houses). Also hands where all four cards are close like 9tjq are ALOT better than say tjq4 as there are loads more combinations for straights and you'll get alot more outs on a board that gives you a wrap. And you wanna be drawing to the nut straight. Position is alot more important in omaha too. You pretty much don't want to slow play, although checking the nut straight on the flop is not a bad play as you don't wanna get in a tricky situation with a bloated pot when you no longer have the nuts on the turn. I wouldn't check a straight where I had two overcards to the straight though like qj to 89t, as you can get money in the pot from lower straights drawing almost dead. Omaha is higher variance than holdem though as its alot easier to suck out, and you're ususally not that far ahead percentage wise.

Donachello

05-20-2010, 07:18 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2009

Location: TROLOLOLOLOL

Posts: 849

Donachello will become famous soon enough

From fairly limited live experience I'd have to concur that almost all hands should be played for value until you actually discover for sure that your opponents have a propensity for folding. I've just found that when I go for value I win a lot and when I incorporate bluffs into my game I end up losing unless the bluffs have a lot of semi-bluff equity.

[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

Problem officer...?

drmcboy

05-20-2010, 07:49 PM

#7 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

Quote:

is crazy bluffer/calling station loves action.

I call planing on raising almost any turn card

this gave me the lols

drmcboy

05-20-2010, 07:54 PM

#8 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

ps learn how to play omaha online first, assuming they don't change the blinds the 1/2 omaha will play much bigger and it sucks for that to be the game you're learning.

Big_Lebowski33

05-21-2010, 05:15 AM

#9 (permalink)

High Card

Join Date: May 2010

Posts: 4

Big_Lebowski33 is on a distinguished road

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmcboy

this gave me the lols

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. Can't bluff calling stations OP thats why they are called calling stations.

You have to gamble to win. If you don't gamble, you can't win. -Sammy Farha-

Micro2Macro

05-22-2010, 07:53 AM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: http://three-pair.com/

Posts: 4,465

bet/shove flop in h1

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

daven

05-23-2010, 05:13 AM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,807

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmcboy

ps learn how to play omaha online first, assuming they don't change the blinds the 1/2 omaha will play much bigger and it sucks for that to be the game you're learning.

qft - i tried learning omaha playing 1-2 and 2-4 (euro) deepstacked (50-250bb) in a swedish casino, and reasonably quickly retreated to the friendly holdem tables.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

paratrooper99

06-01-2010, 02:44 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2010

Posts: 135

paratrooper99 is on a distinguished road

Did I miss something or did you muck the second nuts on the first hand with a flush? Sorry, I couldnt keep reading after that. Just lost trying to really figure out if you mucked the second nuts in a home game. If im wrong let me know and i will read the rest of your hands.

oskar

06-01-2010, 04:40 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

He said he didn't 3b ship over the river raise which is fine.
not shipping != folding

The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

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