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baudib
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12-07-2009, 09:36 AM
Post subject: JJ in BB vs. Button maniac
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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$1/$2 game, very loose player who plays bigger games raises to $10 on button. His standard raise is $15 with trash hands, SC when opening.
I have   in BB. I pop it to $30, limpers fold, he instaraises to $90. Effective stacks $300 and I have not seen him 4-bet, nor have I seen him do anything to 3-bets other than flat or fold. Even against a maniac am I crushed too often vs. his 4-bet range or am I shipping it here?
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
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How crazy is this guy? Have you seen him 4 bet with 99+ or AQ+ before? Without history, i can see the merit of folding in this spot especially if your image is pretty tight.
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Fnord
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Fold
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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yeah this is the most standard spot ever, isn't it.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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*shrug* smells like a rat, don't see the need to go all the way with Jacks here barring more information. The small raise followed by a value re-raise just reeks of a big hand.
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acoss3006
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Any reason we cant flat pre and play against villians wide PFR range?
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by acoss3006
Any reason we cant flat pre and play against villians wide PFR range?
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We're out of position and there is just over one pot sized bet left. Commitment decision needs to be made pre-flop.
I loved guys who made calls like this to play a flop.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by acoss3006
Any reason we cant flat pre and play against villians wide PFR range?
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We're out of position and there is just over one pot sized bet left. Commitment decision needs to be made pre-flop.
I loved guys who made calls like this to play a flop. |
Im pretty sure he means flat the 2bet, rather than flat the 4bet.
The fact that its an insta-4bet makes it even more scary imo. Id dump it pretty fast.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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flatting the raise is fine i think, but i'd rather 3-bet when he's going to call with 98s or A3 almost always.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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acoss3006
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Yah I meant flatting the initial raise. I agree it looks like a fold upon the 4bet..
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Fnord
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12-09-2009, 04:50 AM
Post subject: Re: JJ in BB vs. Button maniac
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#11 (permalink)
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by baudib
limpers fold
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4+ way built pot out of position with JJ doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. I repop barring strong enough of a dynamic to feel good about calling.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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what's your shoving range here, AK, QQ+?
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by baudib
what's your shoving range here, AK, QQ+?
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I dump AK and might or might not shove with QQ depending on how strong I think his 4 bet range is in the heat of the moment.Meh,I'm not a big fan of gambling here coz live players are generally not position aware and only play their own cards.I'd rather look for other favorable spots to stack this guy given that he is terrible and hyper loose aggressive postflop. In my local casino 1/2 nl games,ppl only 4 bet small with KK+ and play loose passively preflop like hell.
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NutsDeep
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12-20-2009, 06:57 AM
Post subject: Re: JJ in BB vs. Button maniac
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#14 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by baudib
$1/$2 game, very loose player who plays bigger games raises to $10 on button. His standard raise is $15 with trash hands, SC when opening.
I have in BB. I pop it to $30, limpers fold, he instaraises to $90. Effective stacks $300 and I have not seen him 4-bet, nor have I seen him do anything to 3-bets other than flat or fold. Even against a maniac am I crushed too often vs. his 4-bet range or am I shipping it here? |
The insta 4bet scares me too, but how many players had limped when he made his initial $10 raise (instead of his normal $15)? If it was folded around to him on the button, I can see him trying to get a call/raise from the blinds with that bet with AA, KK. But if he's not a horrible player and there' more than one limper in the hand, I don't know why he wouldn't raise more to try and thin the field.
Metagame is important here too of course. But in this spot with a few limpers in the hand a $10 bet looks more like a "pot builder" with, say, 78 suited or a low pocket pair. With this in mind, I could put him on a wide enough range (including lower pairs, and suited connectors) to make a shove with JJ profitable in the long run - especially if you think he was putting you on a steal attempt. However, I'd probably cut my loses and dump it most of the time - it's ok to fold the best hand sometimes.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Food for thought: In the self-weighted All-in pre-flop rankings AK is about as strong as TT.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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In my games no one is stacking off pre with 99 and rarely JJ (this is something I've exploited fairly well),so I'd rather have AK when the money goes in, but in general, yeah.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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