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sexualbanana

01-05-2010, 04:48 AM Post subject: Interpret This Line....

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2009

Posts: 9

This being my first post about a specific hand, I wanted to let everyone know about how I like to post these kinds of hands. I like to post from the perspective of the opponent (meaning the reader, you, have to play against me.).

You are playing a $1/2 NLHE at a local casino and it's getting fairly late at night and you've been sitting 8-handed for about an hour now. You are fairly active and aggressive, constantly looking for places to outplay people.

Your opponent is sitting directly to your left and has sat pretty quietly most of the night after losing a number of hands earlier in the night. You've actually voiced displeasure about having him play behind you because you've played with him before and seems to have a lot of experience as a winning player Author's note: I'm sorry if it sounds self-serving.

First 2 players fold. You are UTG+2 with

and limp (starting stack ~240). Villain raises to 12 (started the hand with ~160). Everyone folds to BB who calls. You call.

Flop

BB checks. You bet 15. Villain raises to 35. BB folds. You call.

Turn

You bet 45. Villain tanks and calls.

River is

You bet 45 again. Villain calls. You show your straight and take down the pot.

Intentionally being a prick or not, you say "I don't even know what I have I was trying to outplay you <looks at cards and board>..... Oh, I have a straight.

Before I post up what the Villain (me) had, what do you think I have? I know where I made a huge (among other) mistake, but I'm curious to know what you all thought in terms of finding places to 'outplay' your opponent, and at what point in the Villain's line did you think he was weak?[/i]

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Fnord

01-05-2010, 05:38 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Fold pre-flop, you have a terrible hand and terrible position given the table dynamic and rake structure.
Flop bet is kinda sexy. edit: If you think he's FoS on his flop raise, calling is lame, move all-in. Stack sizes are pretty friendly for a "my penis is bigger" moment.
Turn lead is very read driven but you got there because you fucked up the prior two streets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

bjsaust

01-05-2010, 08:22 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

Moved from FR

Just playing to improve.

bjsaust

01-05-2010, 08:24 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

For me, once you just called turn I'd have put out a very healthy bet on the river if I'd missed.

Just playing to improve.

idfk

01-05-2010, 11:26 AM

#5 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Melboure, Australia

Posts: 28

The short answer is that you had 2 cards and played them badly whatever they may be.

IF you are putting your opponent on air when you cute-raise them on the flop, you need to be jamming it on the turn.

Next time when you are faced with this situation, don't try and be cute. On the flop you're essentially betting $20 into a $45 pot. Why not re-pop to $70 and hope that your opponent does not have 9/10 when you jam it on the turn if you're getting called on the flop.

You have a set or 66 and range your opponent for tptk or something stupid like that.

Please don't post hands like this again. I had to read it about 10 times to make sure I knew who was playing what. The layout is terrible

Your opponent thought you were weak because you were playing the hand like a weak player.

IMO I think you would have called $70 on the river. Possibly more.

oskar

01-05-2010, 02:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

9J would be a fun hand for you to have there

Other than that I don't see what you would gayraise the flop and then just call the turn with...
I think your flop raise size is bad with anything but 69.
If you played an overpair like that... I mean you minraise a hp bet on a board that hits a limp/calling range like a motherfucker (edit: censoring on ftr is fucking gay)
(edit2: wtf you can say fuck but you can't say motherfucker?)
..., giving every imaginable draw the correct odds to call.
Turn is bad because you're never ever folding your flop gayraising range to an lol-bet on the turn.
River is an obvious jam...
No idea what your EP isoing range is, but with all that's going on you probably have either a poorly played set or overpair, JT, 9J.

JKDS

01-05-2010, 02:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Chandler, AZ

Posts: 1,024

wut aboot the 56 sooted

Quote:

Originally Posted by OngBonga

But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.

oskar

01-05-2010, 03:08 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

If you had that it would be even worse because with the raise size you're not folding out better pairs or outside draws with overs, so you might as well just call.

The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

Fnord

01-06-2010, 01:50 AM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

oh, if I'm villian I make it $50 on the flop and put the rest in on that turn card.

Love the live thought process:

Pre-flop: GAMB00L, big pots are fun, having $5+ drop from a small pot sucks.
Post-flop: If I don't slow down I'm going to be all-in. OH NOES!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

sexualbanana

01-06-2010, 06:55 AM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2009

Posts: 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious.

Well boys and girls. I had 75s. Not the greatest of starting hands, but I felt the player to my right was playing a weak hand, and I had been sitting so tight that the few times I had raised to 12, I would take the pot. It's not a play I do often, but it seemed like a good opportunity to take the shot and change my image up a little.

Flop raise was obviously too small. In retrospect, I should have raised to 45. The range of hands I put him on were worst case scenario T9 or 87 and best case scenario he has two overs, or 86.

Turn was a crappy card. It made his hand if he had T9, PLUS the opponent's lead out bet on the turn after calling a raise makes me suspicious. If he had turned the nut straight, he would be far better off check-raising me since I've already showed some aggressive action. Flatting here is stupid if I think he has anything less than T9, but I thought if he does have T9 I have 4 outs to make a full house. Otherwise I'll re-evaluate what to do on the river, I was leaning towards folding if a lame card comes up on the river.

The river card was sick enough to be considered vomit-inducing. It makes every single hand that I had put the opponent on, and the call I make makes the whole hand even worse. It's even entirely inconsistent with the way I decided to play the turn, otherwise shoving on the turn would have been the better decision.

All in all, I thought it was a stupid hand to have lost to, given the action. But it's not like I played the hand well myself.

idfk

01-06-2010, 07:42 AM

#11 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Melboure, Australia

Posts: 28

There are a couple of things that I do not quite understand about this thread, so in no particular order:

1) What are you hoping to gain from this post? Nobody guessed your mysterious 7/5s from your original post where we do not know how many players are on the table or if you are on the button or the immediate left of the limper.

2) Did you learn anything from this post?

3) What did you think your opponent had? Pre flop, Post flop, turn and river thank you.

4) The river card was what you called "lame" but you called anyway. Why?

5) Do you understand how you played this hand so badly?

6) What can you do to improve this (aside from folding preflop)?

Oh and I apologise if I come across as rude, my day at work was shitty.

sexualbanana

01-07-2010, 04:45 AM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2009

Posts: 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by idfk

1) I posted this hand because I'm hoping I can get some other perspective on the way he played and see where he/you would have thought it would be a good time to 'outplay' me. Maybe you guys see something that I don't.

2) I actually have. Writing out the hand actually made me realize how poorly I played the flop and turn. The call on the river is already a disaster and I knew that not long after the hand.

3) The range of hands I thought he had included an overpair like JJ (though unlikely), 98 or 87 (disaster for me), 96 (just seemed unlikely to me), and something weird like A6s.

4) It was a bad card because if he a hand like 98, I'm hooped and I'm drawing to 4-outs. However, I didn't put much weight to it because, like I said in my earlier post, check-raising would've been the far more profitable play with the nut straight against a guy who has already shown some aggression. It did make me think he had a pair with a 6-kicker like 86, 76, 65 but again, why would you bet out on the turn and risk getting raised with a marginal hand? The answer was because it's general pattern of behaviour I've seen in $1/2 live poker. People tend to overvalue their pair+flush/straight draws despite resistance from another player, thinking they're just building the pot until they hit. Which I should have recognized as my cue to shove over top.

5) Like I said, typing out the hand really helps me evaluate my own play. It's obvious that the flop bet was too small. The turn should have seen me go all-in. And the call on the river was ridiculously stupid and inconsistent with my play on the turn.

6) Trust the read. Don't tilt-call the river.

Fnord

01-07-2010, 06:46 AM

#13 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexualbanana

6) Trust the read. Don't tilt-call the river.

You played a river here in spite of the best efforts of your opponent to get the money in faster. With bottom two on a draw heavy board against a loose/spewwy opponent I can't say HELL YEAH fast enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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