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GahGah604
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11-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Post subject: interesting limp raise... good fold ?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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1/2 no limit at a local casino in Vancouver.
Having a pretty good month, won my last 7 out of 8 times with a profit this month of about $1700
anyway...
ok I am on the button with ace/10 suited, I have like $450 in front of me, playing my normal TAG style of play. 5 limpers so far, I raise to $15, 3 of the limpers call, then the hefty dude in middle position limp - reraises me to $47 ! (Hefty dude (LAG) with about $550 in front of him)
I muck my hand ! bad fold ? (all the other callers folded as well)
I always get thrown off when someone limp- reraises me ! It was my last hand and I just didnt want to risk it... I don't know maybe it was a bad fold.
(this guy across the table mumbled, you raise from the button then don't call and rolled his eyes) I was tempted to tell him STFU and let me play my cards, it is not your money im playing with ! I hate people that make smart ass remarks !
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Good fold.
With his post-hand reaction, he was obviously trying to trap you with a monster. Oh, and try not to get so emotionally involved. People will make smart-ass comments all the time to try and manipulate you (which you seem to be vulnerable to?) Just think how you would fare if playing with Mike Matusow...
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Never make that call. If he likes playing back, raise a tighter range in that position.
And seriously, if that upsets you, you'll have to work on controlling your emotions. If a player succeeds to upset you, consider changing tables.
I don't particularly like the raise in that spot. You can't raise much less in live games because you'll end up in a multi way pot, and if you raise that much, you're playing a big pot with a hand that has little chance of flopping something that warrants playing a big pot with. If an A hits, everything but a stronger A will be afraid to call any reasonable bet in relation to the pot size. A ten high flop is not very likely, and your hand is very vulnerable, and again: a hand with a worse kicker will be afraid to put any money in. I'd rather have random broadway connectors - but even then you have to play solid post-flop to make this profitable. I would prefer to avoid these spots all together.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Call he has like TT-66ish.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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5 limpers, $15 button raise?? you cant thin the field this way, dude. If i raise, i'd make $20-25 to go and smile when everyone folds. As played, its not profitable to call with ATs and compete with a LAG even though you have a position on him.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
you cant thin the field this way, dude.
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Why does every hand need to be about isolation? We have a good hand and the button, build a pot. If someone wants to flip the spew switch with lots of money behind, let's gamble.
This kind of shit happens a lot with all of the loose pre-flop action the pot gets way out of control. Folding good hands against such wide ranges and misplaced aggression is giving up too much.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
you're playing a big pot with a hand that has little chance of flopping something that warrants playing a big pot with.
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WTF?!?!?
Nut flush draw - Easy felt with a shitload of money in the pot.
Pair of Aces - Bet/Fold. The big scary pot and your scary range will keep them in line. Laugh when one of the limpers folds AQ face up.
Pair of Tens - Bet/Decision. Laugh when JTo stacks off.
Weak draws - Take a free turn card if offered (almost always get it)
Air - Take a free card, go with your gut if you turn a pair.
Stop playing scared money. Play bigger pots when you have good hands and good position.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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One more note, the biggest winners in the live games I play in build a pot here almost always. Lots of 2x, 3x and 4x raises (50bb game.) They're otherwise pretty terrible, but building pots with a goodish range makes them big winners.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
One more note, the biggest winners in the live games I play in build a pot here almost always. Lots of 2x, 3x and 4x raises (50bb game.) They're otherwise pretty terrible, but building pots with a goodish range makes them big winners.
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many passive players also limp in JJ, AJ-AK in early positions in my live games. I prefer to just call with ATs on the button and raise huge with ATo if possible. Of course, i raise huge with TT+, AQ+ also. Its rarely good to see the flop and miss your flush draw with AT when 3-4 ppl are still in the pot.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
many passive players also limp in JJ, AJ-AK in early positions in my live games.
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Oh noes, they're limping pretty good hands with their crap. That settles it, I'm just limping until I flop the nuts or a nut draw!
ok, sarcasm off. If you think chubby has it, then go ahead and fold. But this is an absurdly profitable spot to build a pot and loosen up the table a bit.
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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thanks guys for the responses, ya I put him on a small pocket pair but since it was my last hand... I laid it down and walked away with $250 profit. I even had my chips in the tray lol bad karma
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Good of a reason as any to fold. Nice quitting decision.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
you're playing a big pot with a hand that has little chance of flopping something that warrants playing a big pot with.
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WTF?!?!?... |
I guess you're right, but you're adding some variance to the game that I personally don't care for.
5 Limpers... you're usually getting 2-4 callers here. So you already have a ~25bb pot going to the flop. Let's say you have :As::Ts: and catch the average :Ad::Jc: and it checks to you. I would hate that spot. (I would hate it more if someone bets 2,5bb) Now, if you want to price out draws, you'll have to make an uncomfortable bet. - You can't count on a loose passive player to raise up AQ in that spot. But there might be some bozo playing his draw aggressively, and you can't call.
At the end of the year it might mean profit, but it's adding some variance to the game that I wouldn't want when it can be beaten for an unworldly rate without too much risk anyway.
I noes someone is going to lecture me on some Poker Theorem after this. So: Variance can mean tilt, emotional roller coaster, stress. Especially in a game where pretty big sums are exchanged in the eyes of the average middle-class grinder.
I personally prefer staying firmly on top of their range, and avoiding gray-area decisions as much as possible.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Win-rate > Variance
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