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interesting floor ruling
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LawDude
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04-20-2009, 06:45 PM
Post subject: interesting floor ruling
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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I got a ruling from the Commerce floor on a practice that I don't like very much, and it's interesting how ticked off the other player got at the ruling.
The practice, which is common in live limit games, is an attempt to circumvent the string bet rule. The string bet rule prohibits you from putting enough chips out there to call, and then reaching back and putting more chips out there to raise, because that allows you to look at the reaction to your bet before deciding whether to raise or not, and can also cause other players to react to your bet with calls, raises, or folds of their own giving you even more information that you weren't entitled to.
So, in general, players are only allowed to make one forward motion unless they verbally declare their bet first.
A number of live limit players attempt to circumvent this by holding a big stack of chips out over the betting line, then dropping 3 or 6 chips (or 4 or 8 chips or whatever the amount is to call) down over the line, waiting and looking around, and then dropping another 3 or 6 chips out to raise. They say that there's only 1 forward motion there, so they aren't violating the string bet rule.
Well, as I've said, I've seen this a number of times, but someone yesterday did it to me on a hand where it actually mattered. I had top pair with a decent kicker, there were two players acting ahead of me, the first guy bets, and the action is on the second guy. He drops the chips down necessary to call, pauses 3 or 4 seconds while looking at me and continuing to hold his chips over the line, and then drops down additional chips to raise. I immediately say to the dealer "I know there was only one forward motion there, but I think the intent of that bet was deceptive, to try to determine my reaction to the call before deciding whether to raise." Dealer says I think that's what he was doing as well, let's call the floor.
Floor, after much discussion, rules that indeed this was a string bet, and further issues the guy a warning not to ever do it again at Commerce Casino.
Here's where things get fun. The player-- who, by the way, had been a pretty nice guy at the table and, even on this issue, never got malicious or raised his voice-- spent the rest of his time at the table trying to convince me, the dealer, and the rest of the people at the table that his bet was within the rule, saying "I always bet like that, I don't have to declare, and as long as there is one forward motion, I am not violating any rule". It was a totally legalistic argument-- essentially, "I've found a way to get around the string bet rule and I don't appreciate someone telling me I can't do it". He eventually went on tilt while continuing to ask every new guy at the table whether he thought this was a string bet.
Bottom line, though-- the string bet rule is not simply "1 forward motion". It's "don't bet in a way that is designed to make a raise look like a call so that you can obtain more information". Or at least that's what it is at the Commerce. And that's what it should be.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Nice ruling.
So much retardation over shit like this at the table. Some people can't just play the game.
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Azazel
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 48
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At crown casino(melb, australia) this is drilled into the dealers and always called a string bet. Also lol at the pausing for 3-4 secs if you drop your chips and they don't hit table within like 0.5s it's called a string.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Is there not a rule that once chips pass over the betting line that they are in play?
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- Jason
 
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
Is there not a rule that once chips pass over the betting line that they are in play?
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In California, they generally have to hit the table past the betting line to constitute a bet. That's the loophole that these guys are exploiting. If you move one pile of chips forward, reach back, grab another pile, and move it forward, everyone knows that is a string bet unless you verbalized, because that's 2 forward motions. But holding chips over the line, not touching the felt, isn't a bet, so these guys use that as an excuse to bet deceptively.
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