|
germansupreme
|
05-07-2008, 08:33 AM
Post subject: importance of a good image at the table
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: glendale heights, IL
Posts: 8
|
|
so i was at a 1/2 NL game earlier tonight and i was playing a solid game. my image was good and when i three bet someone, i got it to heads up like i wanted. but wut about stealing?
image is one of the most important things at a poker table, have a bad image, and u can lose a lot of easy money. for instance, i was playing in a live 1/2 NL game tonight and i was about 2 hours into my session. im a regular at that particular game so most of the players i was playing against already knew my style, but there were about 4 players at the table that i hadn't played with/played a small amount with. i limped utg with 5 5 and the player to my immediate left made it 8 to go (a small raise compared to the normal 12 to go). by the time the action had come back around to me, there were 5 callers already in the pot. i would say about 4 of the players in the pot, excluding myself, looked incredibly weak and had called just because it was so cheap. i took some things into consideration before i decided to fold, call or raise.
#1 i limped utg, which means i had to have some sort of pair or two high broadway cards.
#2 i was pretty card dead for the past 30 minutes, so i was folding a lot of hands, but to everyone else at the table, it seemed like i was playing very tight.
#3 i said nothing or did nothing to hint that i was just going to call (holding onto the correct amount of chips to call, saying "well i might as well call" out of turn, etc etc)
and after about 20 seconds of thinking i decided to raise and made it 40 to go. after a bit of thought, the original raiser folded and everyone behind him almost insta folded. i ended up taking down a 43$ pot uncontested (35$ of that pot was profit).
in a situation like that, if i had a loose agressive image, i wouldve gotten at least one caller and had been forced to continuation bet wutever hit the flop or give up on the hand. ALWAYS take into consideration wut ur image is at the table and play accordingly to it. theres a lot of dead money out there for the taking... u just need to figure out how to get it.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by germansupreme
in a situation like that, if i had a loose agressive image, i wouldve gotten at least one caller and had been forced to continuation bet wutever hit the flop or give up on the hand.
|
I know, it really sucks to have to make insta-profit bets into big pots. Just think of all the money you would have had to risk without the nuts!
A well played LAgg style crushes these games for silly win-rates with a Vegas buy-in and rake structure because most of your opponents are the perfect marks for it.
|
|
|
|
AFchung
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
|
|
i play a very conservative and tight game and everyone picks up on it. occassionally if they bet and i fold, theyll show up KK QQ or something, and i'll fold my AJ face up. in short, everyone knows i play tight
which is what sets up the bluff 
UTG, if i get my two favorite bluffing hands (23 offsuit and 27 offsuit), then ill open the pot for 4x BB. usually this brings the field to 1 or 2. if the flop brings only one face card or ace, i'll raise it up. 75% of the time i take the hand down right here.
a lot of people like to try bluffing on the button for best position. this isnt my stle because when people notice my position, they're more inclined to think im bluffing and i get into trouble. whereas if im acting aggressively UTG, they're going to think i have a high pocket pair, or at the very least TPTK
|
|
|
|
germansupreme
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: glendale heights, IL
Posts: 8
|
|
ya ive noticed, especially online, that when i raise utg, i get way more respect than i would if i was on the button or on the cutoff. i do most of my bluffing preflop from utg because people cant figure it out for some reason...
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by AFchung
UTG, if i get my two favorite bluffing hands (23 offsuit and 27 offsuit), then ill open the pot for 4x BB. usually this brings the field to 1 or 2. if the flop brings only one face card or ace, i'll raise it up. 75% of the time i take the hand down right here.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by germansupreme
i do most of my bluffing preflop from utg because people cant figure it out for some reason...
|
*head in hands*
Bluffing with hopeless hands. Building a nit image, then showing 23o 27o to try to break it. Raising crap UTG where anyone with a hand is going to give you action. Blowing weak players off of QQ/JJ. Advanced stuff here. 
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
I was playing at a casino playing 1/2 a few weeks back and found myself fairly card dead. I had tried a couple times to isolate some limpers in position with a few marginal hands to build a laggy image, but ended up in 4-ways with no pair and had to c/f.
I finally wake up with kings after an EP raise of $6 got 4 callers and I'm on the BU, pop it up to $30 and everyone folds. Guy on my right says "a little cheaper and you woulda priced me in".
I guess my image was tight enough, and they weren't bad enough to call a 3-bet light. I sure as hell didn't wanna play kings in a 5-way...
live poker can be frustrating like that. Takes so much more patience than multi-tabling online.
Also another example of why I like building a laggy image...
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
I guess my image was tight enough, and they weren't bad enough to call a 3-bet light.
|
Nahhh, you just got unlucky and had to settle for $24
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
I guess my image was tight enough, and they weren't bad enough to call a 3-bet light.
|
Nahhh, you just got unlucky and had to settle for $24 |
I find it entirely unacceptable to not stack a donk with KK+ live 
I found my last live experience to be more frustrating than my first one. I was at tables full of people who the dealers knew by name. They still seemed to be fairly loose passive by online standards -- there were still a lot of family pots, but they were tighter postflop. Also there was more PFRing / 3-betting than loose passives would be doing.
I'm still insecure with my live game, so it made me wonder if I should start calling PFRs a lot lighter than I already had been doing live...
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Don't call PFRs light. Just 3-bet and raise light with position.
A couple light raises (and I don't mean the stupid 72o or 23o then show trick) will build up enough mistrust. Never show a hand unless called down, then fastroll them.
Shift your betting between pot-relative and real-money terms to get the maximum pay-off.
Sometimes they fold pre-flop to your Aces. Depend less on them and it's not a big deal.
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Don't call PFRs light. Just 3-bet and raise light with position.
A couple light raises (and I don't mean the stupid 72o or 23o then show trick) will build up enough mistrust. Never show a hand unless called down, then fastroll them.
Shift your betting between pot-relative and real-money terms to get the maximum pay-off.
Sometimes they fold pre-flop to your Aces. Depend less on them and it's not a big deal.
|
Basically that's what I've been doing...
Though once after doing nothing but fold for almost an hour, I raised from the CO when folded to with 56o, got called by the laggy BB, check, c-bet, fold. I show my hand saying "I gotta start playing SOMEthing since I ain't getting any cards". Too obvious a table-image move?
I don't see what so bad about showing your cards in a situation like that. It encourages others to show cards in situations where they really shouldn't, and lets the table know you're not a rock, even if you've been acting like one. 
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
I don't see what so bad about showing your cards in a situation like that.
|
It creates an expectation that they don't have to pay money to see what you have.
Opponents won't second guess a good laydown when they know you show bluffs.
It also gives information to corelate to any body tics you gave off.
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
I don't see what so bad about showing your cards in a situation like that.
|
It creates an expectation that they don't have to pay money to see what you have.
Opponents won't second guess a good laydown when they know you show bluffs.
It also gives information to corelate to any body tics you gave off. |
Seems like a lot of that would apply more to good opponents than your typical 1/2 donk...
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
Seems like a lot of that would apply more to good opponents than your typical 1/2 donk...
|
Donks will pay to see what you have.
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
Dozer, you must be up 700-800 after your first two trips to the live cash game arena, what do you say we hit up Niagara this weekend sometime?
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
When are you guys comming to LA or Vegas?
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
no plans but i'd love to go asap
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Dozer, you must be up 700-800 after your first two trips to the live cash game arena, what do you say we hit up Niagara this weekend sometime?
|
Well I was up 750 from the o-dot night, and down 150 from niagara, but 600 ain't too shabby.
This weekend is no g00t, but I could entertain the idea of going next weekend. Wifey is leaving me from the 15th to the 22nd so I'm gunna rock out 'bachelor stylez' like will farrell in old school. Or whatever that movie was where he goes crazy after a beer...
Admittedly I liked the o-dot games more for their casual atmosphere, no rake, no dirty-ass chips, less of a drive, no hotel needed, and more fish (Kinda my fault for terrible table selection at niagara...but still)
I'm gunna try to hit it up next thursday. Actually I can't do niagara cause I gotta take care of my dogs.
If you need somewhere to escape your brother you could come keep me and my dogs company. LAN grinder 2-man party? HU live for bank accounts? Oh yeah that's rockin'.
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
^^^^
he might die before then
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
^^^^
he might die before then
|
Rear naked choke = no mess
|
|
|
|
Hawk
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
grinder 2-man party?
|
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hawkfan79
|
Quiet...I'm trying to set up drew for some bro rape. Dude is tight enough already, the last thing I need is you narcing me out, bro
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
both of you are fags
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
serkanak
|
|
|
|
yeah
|
|
|
|
notgrant
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3
|
|
By o-dot what city are you refering to? Ottawa, Orillia? Owen Sound? Oshawa?
I've never heard that term. People in Ottawa call it O-town, and I know t-dot is Toronto... so i'm a bit confused.
|
|
|
|
germansupreme
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: glendale heights, IL
Posts: 8
|
|
wut does this word light mean? i keep hearing "bet light, raise light, 3 bet light". can someone enlighten me plz?
|
|
|
|
badgers
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
|
|
for light read with a lot of hands. "A lot" being situationally dependant, but think of it as with more hands than you would expect in that position.
|
3k post - Return of the blog!
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
Linear Mode
