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The Impersonality of Online Poker and our new culture...

  
 
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Monty3038
Old 07-30-2008, 12:39 PM     Post subject: The Impersonality of Online Poker and our new culture... #1 (permalink)  
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Ok, so this may not be the most thought out or intelligent post, and I'm at work so it may appear disjointed, but I'm going to open a discussion and see what comes of it.

In today's American society we have gotten to a point where having personal relationships with most people in the world has come to be non existant. What I mean is, we now order our food through a speaker, we order our movies through our cable TV remotes, we can have groceries, appliances and repairs delivered. It has come to a point where you could live an entire life with only absolute minimum interraction face to face with another person.

So it is with poker. Today there are loads of poker online sites. Poker used to be a game where a few friends or competitors set down around a table, dealt out the cards and had a good time. Now it has gotten to the point where people just come home from work and dial into the internet and interract solely with a machine.

Now, honestly there are some throwbacks to the 'friends around a table' idea of poker, just look at FTP or PokerStars, one allows you to choose an avatar that can represent you or your mood, display all the avatars around the table and even change their facial expressions. The other allows you to upload your own images to post as your avatar... all of which appears to be a throwback to the home table games of the past, making people feel more comfortable and less like they are playing an automoton.

This is not a bad thing, and I love online poker, but I've noticed that it tends to lead towards a vastly different set of interraction skills. Some people cannot handle it and throw major fits in the chat box trying to either tilt the other players or on tilt themselves. In a brick and mortar casino or home game these players would be quickly admonished and possibly even have security called on them. The online casinos do respond and punish these people through banning them or their chat, but it is quite a different feel. Players also can't bluff with facial expressions of surprise or stone faces in these online games, which lowers the amount of information you can gather in an online game to betting patterns and percentages.

Some would argue this makes poker more mathmatic, which I agree it does, but it makes it very impersonal. I do like online poker and enjoy this aspect of it, but I find that a lot of players who are trying it out just don't seem to be able to handle it. They rant and rave in the chat box, flinging racial and ethical insults, etc.

So if we remove chat, remove the emotion of sitting across from someone you know playing in a home game, remove the ability to use body language to bluff, does it reduce the game to pure mathematics? No, it doesn't... if it did there would be a majic formula here hiding in a post that says do this with each set of cards and you'll win. There is too much variance and other factors involved.

Since this new online poker world is so impersonal, how do you succeed at it? Beyond the math, which is discussed in great length in many sections of this very forum, and with which I still struggle a bit... I'm unsure. I find it can be very hard to control 'tilt' in this online world because there is no one there to stare at you when you start being an obnoxious ass. There is not set of 'morals of behavior' to keep you from throwing the mouse across the room (something you would never do in a room full of players). You can scream at the monitor and call everyone you play a donkey.

Chat is another factor, growing up digital and being online even before 90% of the population had heard of the word 'Internet', back from the world of FIDOnet and others, I have lived with Chat my entire life. I like to chat and do so with my wife at home when I'm at work. It can be very hard for a player like myself to turn that chat box off or ignore it, but I find it necessary to not participate or it distracts me from the game...

Another factor that distracts from the game is the impersonality of it all... when I'm out of a hand, I can't just sit around and chat with another player about what they do, where they are from, how their kids are, etc... which can lead to boredom or opening more tables than I can effectively play...

Another thing I think this impersonality of online poker does to our mental state is it makes the money seem unreal. If you can't sit and 'feel' the chips, or the cash they represent, they seem to be less than what they are... here is a real life example that might not translate exactly... but it might... When I go to Canada and trade my US cash for Canadian bills, it feels like Monopoly money to me, and with the transfer rate it seems like a lot more money, so I spend it quicker in the casino, losing usually at a faster rate than I do in an American casino... the difference in the money is the only factor I can see... the money just doesn't feel 'substantial' or real to me.

So what was the point of this post... I'm not sure, but I was doing some thinking on the impersonality of online poker and thought I'd share some of it with you all... comments welcomed and appreciated... just don't call me a donk in chat...
 
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Andrew
Old 07-30-2008, 01:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I think this is exactly what most live players have been attempting to say about the online players but they've never been able to articulate it the way you have. The online world has stripped poker down to its bare essentials to the point where that's all people know.

It's like everyone says, there's no pressure to fold when all you got to do is click that "call" button.

In some regard the way you've described the online poker world (and I totally agree with it) reminds me of the difference between playing Pool on the computer and being in a Hall and shooting racks. You could become a God at playing the game on the computer but nothing can prepare you for lining up your last shot, the cue in your sweaty palms and you know that if you miss this, game over. You don't even need money on the line to feel the pressure. But to go along with it there's so much fun to be had with the other player, people sitting sweating the game. It's a much bigger blast than playing it on the computer.

And that's what I think the online poker is. It's poker at its most basic level, you'll learn enough to be able to survive in the real games but you will have a big adaption to go through. It's easy to tell because online players all say the same thing about live games.

"I'm bored. It's too slow."
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pgil
Old 07-30-2008, 02:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I started out playing online, but now I love the live games. Theres something much more satisfying about stacking up the chips from a huge pot live than just having some numbers change on a computer screen.

I do think that a lot of the players that play almost exclusively online get a little rambunctious at the tables, and that bugs me. always jumping up, yelling shit, and in the big tournaments on the TV always high-fiving the crowd after every hand. just sit down and play some cards. we all saw that you rivered the ace, and we all put him on that same hand too.
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
 
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drmcboy
Old 07-30-2008, 06:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 The idea live players don't get rambunctious is just nonsense, watch more poker. Class is class, some people have it and some don't. There are more annoying players now than before because there are more total players. If it's true in your game that's fine. It sounds like a great strategy to tilt you.

Of course online is different than live, just like playing with 8 drunk guys is different from playing against 8 grannies. If you can't adapt to use whatever tools you do or don't have, you're at a disadvantage. You detail a bunch of 'problems' you have - that's bad for you but great for your opponents. It sounds like you probably shouldn't play online.
If the money doesn't feel real come sit at my table. Again, this is bad for you but the idea that it is a problem is bizarre.

Poker used to be something most people could not play regularly, especially in a safe environment with a bevy of choices for their game and stake.

If you're worried about people not interacting, notice that when you play online you get to spend a lot more time with family and/or friends since you don't have to worry about travel time. You can even put the PC in the family room if you want. You'll also probably eat much better at home, drink less, and maybe even take a break to work out or at least work off tilt where as live you're stuck at the casino. Again during these breaks you can see people you actually care about rather than people you barely know, most of whom are either being paid to service you or actively lying to you in an attempt to take your money.

Poker theory, especially NLHE, has dramatically advanced since the online boom which does not at all support the idea that it's more 'basic' poker. Read the original SS to get a view of the way the vast majority of players used to play. People who used to rely on soul reads and are now losers are just catching up with their expectation because they never knew how to play to begin with.

Online poker more or less saved poker in general and anyone live player who wants to whine about it looks exactly like golfers who whine about Tiger Woods, except much dumber. Again, most of them are just losers or people who could only beat one style and are now overwhelmed by players of different types who can change gears.

Live poker is great

Online poker is great

hooray
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Monty3038
Old 07-30-2008, 07:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Well... based on responses it appears that people actually do see the differences between online and live poker. It also appears that the 'tone' of my post was missed.

It was more of a philosophical post rather than a whine post drmcboy, but hey, take it as you will. I'm not a great player but I'm learning, and expressing some of my thoughts as I go along.
 
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