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FyrFytr998

09-08-2004, 04:10 AM Post subject: Home Game Blinds Theory

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Milford,Ct.

Posts: 1,412

Well I was puttering around the net and came across a post from another forum. The question regarded how to set up a proper blind structure so the games won't be too fast or too long. And this was one of the responses. With so many cookie cutter blind samples floating around the net. I thought this was an interesting and insightful reply to the question. Tell me what you think.

Quote:

Your starting chip count should be between 100 and 150 times your starting big blind. If you start with $1/$2 blinds, your starting chip count should be 200 to 300 chips. If you start with a lower ratio the tournament is too much of a crap shoot where luck is more important than skill. If your chip count is only 10 times the big blind you are pretty much pot committed on any preflop raise of 3 to 3.5 times the big blind. In that case if you are going to raise a pot you should be all in preflop instead of just raising preflop. Thats why you should start with a chip count that doesn't allow players to be in an all in situation within the first hour of the tournament. You should raise the blinds in increments of 50 to 75% so they don't go up so quickly. When your big blind is equal to your starting chip count the tournament will more than likely end at that blind level.

At home games you are lucky to get 20 hands per hour in the first hour because of so many limpers at the lower blind levels. The more players in a pot the slower the hands are especially if they last until showdown.

If you want skill to be a more important part of the tournament it needs to have a good starting chip to starting blind ratio, the blind levels need to increase at a slow enough rate, and therefore the tournament may last longer as a result. It is difficult to get the proper balance when there is only a 3 hour time constraint. I like tournaments that last somewhere between 5 and 6 hours to completion with a field of 30 players.

Now with my T2000 chip tourney starting with a $25/$50 blind. That means I'm only 40 times the big blind. Which can at times lead to some janky play if someone takes an early loss. So I'm considering upping the starting amount. I just wonder if T5000 is too much at 100 times the BB. I'd be a little happy to play longer if it got rid of limping.

Like I said. What's your thoughts?

Big Lick

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Karsk

09-08-2004, 07:38 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 75

hmm the tourney i run is similar to pokerstars, 1500 chips with a 10/20 start on blinds. that itself is only 75 BB but i havent had any problems, other than people knocking themselves out with stupidity.

FyrFytr998

09-08-2004, 08:38 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Yeah, I was looking at this as a way to make a home game more player friendly. With an emphasis on "friendly". Kinda gives everyone a chance for some socialization before getting knocked out the tourney. Nothing worse than getting beat early and sitting there all pouty and crap.

Against a table of strangers, I'm all for a smaller starting stack size. Bigger starting stacks makes the game less cutthroat for ones friends. Especially the ones who know they aren't that good and are afraid of losing quickly.

And personally, I'm looking at home games as a way to make money, instead of getting together and chilling with my buddies. And I want to stop that. Sometimes I'm too competetive for my own good.

I think I'm gonna give a T5000 Limit Hold'em Tourney a shot and see how it plays out. And start the blinds at 25/50.

Big Lick

Jes_Gru

09-08-2004, 08:38 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 209

Here was my structure:

T1000 with blinds 10/15 + 5 ante, for 40 minutes (66%)
next is 15/25 + 5 ante, for 30 minutes

Allow for a one-time rebuy/addon before the start of the 3rd round or T750 (was T500 first tournament).
3rd is 25/50 + 10 for 25 minutes

With 20 players, the tournament lasted 5.5 hours.
Having the longer round times allows for people to settle into the game, and allowing us to get more hands in the later rounds.
Having the rebuy/addon, ensures that everyone that comes will be able to play for over an hour without being completely out of the tournament.

FyrFytr998

09-08-2004, 08:49 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I try to avoid the whole rebuy scenario. To me it just promotes bad play. The last home game I played. A guy busted out due to reckless play, and was allowed to rebuy (My buddies call, not mine). And he wound up taking second place (to my 1st

). And I can't help but think that the other guys (besides my buddy) were kinda pissed knowing he never should have had a shot at that money.

So that's why I posted this topic. I figure with a large enough starting stack for "Friendly" games. People can play their way (good or bad), but not run the chance of an early defeat. You know, getting your moneys worth, so to speak.

Big Lick

Jes_Gru

09-08-2004, 09:02 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 209

I purposely had the rebuy for that very reason. With the exception of Michael1123, the majority of everyone else at my tournament were total newbies. Most of their exposure to Hold'em was through the WSOP. My fear was that if I started them with T100 or T5000 they would still go all-in and get busted out of the tournament.

I will probably review the rebuy/addon once the players get some more experience (Sat will only be my 2nd tournament). The responses I got were that everyone liked the rebuy/addon.

So back to your original question (like in so many of the poker books)....it depends.

FyrFytr998

09-08-2004, 09:09 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Location: Milford,Ct.

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Tomatoe, tomato
Potatoe, potato
Let's call the whole thing off.....

Glad your tourney is doing well.

Big Lick

michael1123

09-09-2004, 01:27 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Location: Rochester Hills, MI

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Yeah, I liked it. The cool thing was that if you rebought you couldn't addon, so there was still a benefit to the people that didn't bust out early.

Also, the tournament pacing was very nice. If you notice FyrFytr, Jes Gru did use half the starting chips that you do, but his blinds start at less than a 3rd of what yours start at, so it may even give more room to error, even without the rebuy.

To answer your original question, maybe you should consider reducing the size of your starting blinds instead of increasing the stack sizes. It should have the same effect.

Karsk

09-09-2004, 04:59 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 75

another option i've used is to make the blind times vary. Last tourney i held, i kept the blinds at 10/20 for the first hour. Nearly everyone stayed in during that time and got to play. After that the blinds went up twice an hour until we finished. 16 people, lasted roughly 5 hours.

ku_ratpack

09-16-2004, 06:48 AM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas

Posts: 7

I've played in a home tourney where the host was almost dead set against raising the blinds. He'd "forget" to restart the timer, and then, by the time it was 5 am and three-way action, the blinds were at 100/200 or something, and he proposed the up them to 125/250...um No buddy.

It was aggravating because I recall I had busted out with cowboys in a raising war with someone with 9To. Yeah they hit a straight. By the end of the night, in the three way action it was call, call, check, flop, check check check, turn, check,check, small bet, call fold, river, check check.
Over and over. I wanted to pull a Mike McD and make one of them raise once in a while.

Xianti

09-16-2004, 07:08 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ku_ratpack

by the time it was 5 am and three-way action, the blinds were at 100/200 or something, and he proposed the up them to 125/250...um No buddy.

By the end of the night, in the three way action it was call, call, check, flop, check check check, turn, check,check, small bet, call fold, river, check check.
Over and over.

Ugh. What a freakin' nightmare. 'Til 5:00 AM?!?!!

At about 2:00 AM, you'd think people would get a clue that the tourney is lasting waaaaay too long because the blind increases aren't aggressive enough!

If I'm invited to a home tourney, I like to find out what the blind structure is first. If I think it's going to last more than 3 or 4 hours, I don't go.

ku_ratpack

09-16-2004, 09:06 AM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas

Posts: 7

We started at about 11pm and started with one table of 10 with one rebuy. But yeah, it was ridiculous, the guy didn't understand that the blinds cant just go up one chip, they have to actually INCREASE. He was also against coloring his chips up, so he'd have to count out a couple of stacks of chips to fill a blind...couldn't just switch out for the plentiful chips of other denominations, noo sir...he had to keep his stacks of ten cent chips.

The lesson, kids: like Xianti said, know what you're getting into, haha. I didn't have a ride home otherwise I'd have just walked back to the house.

FyrFytr998

09-16-2004, 01:58 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Location: Milford,Ct.

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Man that sucked. People ask me why I increase the blinds the way I do. I just ask them if they plan on going home any time soon. If the guy isn't going to raise the blinds. He should just make it a straight cash game. This way people can hit their pots and go home if they want. And after a few hit and runs he'll get the picture.

You could always refer him here to this site. We'll school him on proper home tourney set up.

Big Lick

stevedonel

09-16-2004, 05:20 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

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I play in several different home game groups. They all use different chip/blind structures.

My normal $20-40, 10-20 seat tourney we start out with the actual $ amount in chips, and blinds start at 25¢/50¢. They increase every 20-30 minutes, depending on the number of players: 1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 4/8, 5/10, then it varies depending on how many people are left and what the players can agree on. This free-form, method works well with us, because we play together so much (6-7 nights a week) I tend to do best in this game, probably because I play it so much.

Other games I've played in vary from the above game to the hardest for me:
Start out with 1000 chips, blinds start T10/T20. They increase every HOUR, with the numbers similar to the typical blinds you see on internet tourneys. I have yet to make it very far in this game, but you can see my post about that in the Tourney Strategies section. (some of this is cut and past from there)

I would suggest downloading this program

Tourement Director

It gives suggestions on blinds, payouts. Or it will run all the seating, blinds, timer, ect.... pretty cool. We used it for our last 36 person tourney. I dont know the guy who wrote it, but its donation-ware so send him some money if you like it.

Is that guy still part of the forum??

FyrFytr998

09-18-2004, 10:30 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Location: Milford,Ct.

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I'm thinking for my next home game, I'm gonna try a little pot limit hold'em. I'm gonna make it $50 bucks for T5000 in chips. And make the blinds about 20 mins. each. This way guys can play for a bit, and I don't have to deal with rebuys.

At another game I played. My buddy had a rule. If anyone busted out. They could rebuy, but they rebought for the whole table. So basically it was free add ons for the players still in it. I thought it was weird at first, but didn't mind as it just made me harder to beat. And the guy who did rebuy wound up taking second even though he basically gave everyone free chips.

When I asked my friend why he ran his rebuys that way. He said it helps negate reckless play. Kinda makes it hard to be an all in freak when you're giving the opposition more ammunition. Hmmmm.....interesting.

What do you guys think about that?

Big Lick

Legendash

09-19-2004, 01:45 PM

#16 (permalink)

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So does that mean if the add on was say 10 bucks he'd have to pay 70 bucks if there were 7 players left or did he just pay 10 and then everyone else got chips for free?

Its quite an interesting idea, i'm thinking of having a tourny game at my place this friday but i haven't decicded exactly how i'm going to run it with respect to blinds and add ons, i'll probably copy VC and have 2000 chips, start at 20/40 and have 20 min or half hour blind increases.

"[This theory] is only useful for helping to calculate your luck odds. If you have a good read that you have a numerical advantage against your opponent, that your hand is "luckier"..."

Copyright, Youngdro 2007.

FyrFytr998

09-19-2004, 03:33 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Milford,Ct.

Posts: 1,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendash

Basically they pay the buy in and get the starting amount of chips again. And everyone else also gets chips for free.

Big Lick

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