|
FlowJoe
|
10-26-2008, 03:23 AM
Post subject: Forward Rule for Betting and Staging of chips to bet etc.
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 83
|
|
The other night on the WSOP the floor man made an interesting call on a player who guided out a couple stacks of chips to the center table and then retracted them, subsequently only betting a fraction of the two stacks. A couple players immediately called him on it. But the floor man ruled that as long as didn't release them, he didn't FORMALLY bet. What happened to the "MOVE FORWARD" rule which I thought was in effect? Staging (preparing to bet), IMHO, was to be done to the side of your stack but close to the table rail and then moved forward. I guess the payer wanted to get a read on other. But what if his stacks had fallen over into the center?
I could even see it if he moved them an ainch or two but he really PUSHED them and pulled. I don't know!!
Wadda ya thinks folks??
Peace,
FLOW 
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
dranger7070
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,526
|
|
Yea i seen that on Espn. Thought it was a bogus ruling IMO. guy shoved his stack into the middle by about a foot lol then pulled it back and barely bet anything. Woulda been so pissed.
|
|
|
|
oskar
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
|
|
I haven't seen that particular case.
If you have a lot of chips, you are certainly allowed to count out a couple of stacks in front of you before betting. Once you push one stack out, that should count as a bet. You can't reach back and push more chips in, unless you announced your bet beforehand. Of course, once the bet is made, you can't pull it back.
I guess this was some kind of gray are where the guy took too much space to count his chips.
|
|
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
|
|
FlowJoe
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 83
|
|
Oskar,
He had finished staging chips. He slide two FULL stacks with a little on top forward about a foot, cause he was in a corner position (2 ) then slide it back without releasing. He then took off 1/3 of one of the two stacks and threw them out as a bet. You have to see it to really understand.
Peace.
FLOW
|
What MUST be, most surely SHALL be!!
  
|
|
drmcboy
|
|
DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
|
|
It was one ~3 mil stack and he ended up only betting 1.5m.
video here
http://www.pokeraffiliateprograms.co...ost112597.html
Tough spot, you are certainly allowed to grab a 'stack' of chips, cut some out, and then take some back (which is what the floor called it, cut and release). Seems like the answer is to say any chips that go into a betting area stay there (usually when I have played live there is a line at the table, that would also help), regardless of whether you are touching them or not. But without that rule you're really saying that you can take some back unless the stack is 'too big' based on the dealer/floor's judgment.
|
|
|
|
tpb221
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 69
|
|
Terrible ruling. They said since he did not leave go of the stack he could bring it back.WOW. He push the stack forward into the pot, this was no cut and release.
|
|
|
|
drmcboy
|
|
DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
|
|
It is, it's just too big of a stack to hold in one hand, that's my point. When you cut and release you're also putting chips into the pot and taking them out, and you could possibly get a tell just by moving those chips into the middle. If you're going to allow it at all you're going to have this problem. The rule/table set up is bad
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
I give people the benefit of the doubt here.
Let him do his thing, don't rush him and a warning is fine to stop the angelshoot. If he does it again after warning assess a penalty.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by oskar
You can't reach back and push more chips in.
|
This is not true.
|
|
|
|
ChezJ
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
|
|
it surprises me that they not have commitment lines on the tables at the WSOP.
|
|
|
|
oskar
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by oskar
You can't reach back and push more chips in.
|
This is not true. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by oskar
You can't reach back and push more chips in, unless you announced your bet beforehand.
|
All casinos have different rulse. But usually whatever you put in counts as a bet, if you put more money in afterwards it's a string bet and will not count.
|
|
|
|
drmcboy
|
|
DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
|
|
if you leave your hand on the chips I have not heard of that being called a string bet
|
|
|
|
oskar
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
|
|
So you mean if he pushes a stack in, keeps one hand on the stack while reaching back to put more money in? I have never seen that.
Where I play they are pretty anal about stuff like that. The dealer would announce the bet/raise/call the moment he pushes it forward. Why else would he push it forward?
|
|
|
|
drmcboy
|
|
DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
|
|
yes, as long as you don't take your hand off the bet you can go get more. I agree it's bad
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Betting has to be fluid. Pausing (to get a reaction), then going back for more is a string bet. Then it gets grey. For your own protection verbally say an amount or "raise" if you can't put out enough chips in one motion. However, grabbing a stack, then quickly following it with another stack is usually legal.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChezJ
it surprises me that they not have commitment lines on the tables at the WSOP.
|
Commit lines cause as many problems as they solve.
I've yet to see a dispute centering on how far chips were moved forward and any joker pushing chips forward to get a reation should be immediately warned because that kind of shit is going to cause problems.
|
|
|
|
TLR
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,007
|
|
I think it was a bad ruling.
However I dont think the russian guy try to get info, he seemed to make an honest mistake.
|
|
|
|
FlowJoe
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 83
|
|
From what I understand, the commit line, formally means nothing, it's just there for ????? God only knows!!!!
Peace,
FLOW
|
What MUST be, most surely SHALL be!!
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
