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Tiresman
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07-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Post subject: Fold is right?
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#1 (permalink)
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Two Pair
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 36
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1-2 NL, effective stack sizes Hero $350 Villain $500.
I'm UTG with Kc Ks and raise to $13. MP and BB call. Flop Qd Th 8d. BB checks, I lead $40, MP folds, BB raises to $125. Don't know much about villain, but it looks like all I beat is AQ, let it go?
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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ok lets see, first I do not like the 13 raise UTG. Invites too many people in the pot and chances of getting your big pair cracked increase!
2nd...Why bet so much on that wet board? ya the flush is out there but your vulnerable to a reraise with the nut draw etc that will put you in a tough spot. (which is exactly what happened here) Hands that they are holding? ok QQ is not likely, he would have 3bet you preflop, J9s possible but not likely... why not smooth call and let you hang yourself. I would say AKd or nut flush draw, 1010, 88! less likely 98d, KQ, QJ, J10 would all be in his range too.
I would hate life and let this go.
Next time either bet less say like $27 to $30 on this flop or even better check this board and see what villian does and decide from there based on reads and bet.
Keep in mind that if you bet $40 you gotta already know what your going to do if someone raises you, or why bet $40 in the first place? I like to base this on info I have on my opponent already and what has happened in the hand or previous hands to make a good decision.
hope that helps.
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Vegastripreport
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 16
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GahGah604
Next time either bet less say like $27 to $30 on this flop or even better check this board and see what villian does and decide from there based on reads and bet.
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Good post. But I'd definitely make a pot size bet instead of checking that board. Why give him a free card to suck out on you? If he checks behind, and then an Ace falls on the turn, your decisions becomes much harder.
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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I just don't see the need to bet pot sized when 27 or 30 bucks will do the exact same thing.
The reason I said check the flop sometimes is (2 main reasons)... could induce a bluff and go for a nice check raise. 2nd reason is if you both check and a scary card comes on the turn you can get away for cheap. Sometimes these calling stations will call any bet so why lose money on that wet board?
meh maybe I'm wrong but seems to work for me
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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$30ish flop bet is pretty standard, although this is the sort of board that cries for either an over-bet or under-bet.
Ship it in. You have good equity against the range of possible all-in hands. You're flipping/ahead of most draws. You crush top pair. You can resuck against two pair. J9 and sets are the only hands that really have you crushed here.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,605
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hell yeah puuuush!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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normally I let go of kk in these spots this deep but would be happy to get in vs aggressive players or gamble with less money behind.You should be aware of your opponents style and then make a decision based on that.
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
$30ish flop bet is pretty standard, although this is the sort of board that cries for either an over-bet or under-bet.
Ship it in. You have good equity against the range of possible all-in hands. You're flipping/ahead of most draws. You crush top pair. You can resuck against two pair. J9 and sets are the only hands that really have you crushed here.
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your happy flipping when your this deep?
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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in general,1/2NL live passive ppl tend to play honestly on these super drawy flops unless they are brainless gamblers.So I do think your kk got crushed here a fair percentage of the time.Yeah,foldind our good hand sounds weak but we can find a better spot to stack donks.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GahGah604
your happy flipping when your this deep?
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When I'm not comfortable flipping for my effective stack, I'm leaving or table changing.
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GahGah604
your happy flipping when your this deep?
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When I'm not comfortable flipping for my effective stack, I'm leaving or table changing. |
Hmmmm why not play the casino house games then? I just don't see why anyone would want to coin flip for their money if they could get it in better (especially being so much better then the rest of the table)
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GahGah604
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GahGah604
your happy flipping when your this deep?
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When I'm not comfortable flipping for my effective stack, I'm leaving or table changing. |
Hmmmm why not play the casino house games then? I just don't see why anyone would want to coin flip for their money if they could get it in better (especially being so much better then the rest of the table) |
Dead money+fold equity = profit on a coinflip
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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GAMB00000000000000000000000000L!
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
GAMB00000000000000000000000000L!
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I have no reply for that! HAHAHAHAAHA
what can you say to GAMBOOOLLLL!
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GahGah604
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
GAMB00000000000000000000000000L!
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I have no reply for that! HAHAHAHAAHA
what can you say to GAMBOOOLLLL! |
you can say BING BLANG BLAOW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
GAMB00000000000000000000000000L!
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it really depends on who you are up against.In my local casino,I rarely see 1/2nl ppl raise this big with TP or combo draws.However,I wouldnt hesitate to shove 5 buyins vs aggressive retards.
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