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Bugeye
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06-26-2007, 05:41 PM
Post subject: First Time At B&M Tourney - Need Advice
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 25
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I started playing poker ~1 year ago. My play has been exclusively online, with the emphasis on 1 and 5 table Sit and Go's. I've been doing pretty well lately, but now I'm venturing into unknown waters: Tonight I'm going to head over to the local casino for their weekly Tuesday night $60 NL tourney. I've been told to expect ~100 players or so, and that the blinds escalate fast (like every fifteen minutes or so).
So, having never done this before, I ask: What are the most important things for me to focus on during this game? I've NEVER played in a live game before, let alone a tourney of this size.
What are the top things to keep in mind?
Help!
-Bug
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ChrisTheFish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Huddersfield, England
Posts: 492
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Just remember to wait until it's your turn to act, don't speak about your hand unless its heads up. Don't curse if you folded a straight or whatever during a hand. Basically for the first time, just get used to it and most importantly have fun. and win obv.
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Liam^
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106
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Don't look at your hand until it's your go.
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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so what happened?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Liam^
Don't look at your hand until it's your go.
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This is a very good tip.
Also don't underestimate the effect luck has on a game with such rapidly increasing blinds.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Liam^
Don't look at your hand until it's your go.
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what is the reasoning behind this?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Lots of reasons. You dont give off tells about the strength of your hand until it is your turn to act. It forces you to concentrate on the other players even when you have an unplayable hand (because you dont know its unplayable) which can lead to picking up useful information. It means you are far less likely to act out of turn since you will have longer to realise it isnt your turn. There are probably other good reasons too.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Another good tip, exterior to the cards in general is paying attention to who IS looking at their cards in mid to late position frequently, if not every hand. Focus more of your attention on these players when the cards come out, because you'll usually have time to pick up a tell or two on these players before UTG acts. Then revert to watching the developing action. If you notice the same player(s) betraying the strength of their hand, and you see someone in earlyish position about to open-raise, start looking at the weaker players who've already looked at their cards, see how they react to the raise. A lot of times this is the key deciding factor in whether or not you want to flatcall with a marginal strong hand like KJs or KQo, or possibly reraise if you think the opponents to act after you are light.
In general, based on my limited experience in live tournies the following advice seems pretty standard:
1) Stick to Group A for at least the first two blind levels, you can try to see cheap flops with low-mid PPs, but ideally you're setting 'em or forgetting 'em on the flop.
2) Around blind levels 3 and 4 start open raising with Group B, and C hands in late position. I'd also be calling mid-position openers at this stage with Group C hands.
3) By blind levels 5 and 6, most of the big fish are out of the pond, which means other than the 1 or 2 TAGs you're likely to have a bunch of TWP's, identify who the TAGs are in the first 2-3 levels, you want to raise a TON of pots in position if you've got nits behind you. Most people that play live poker, in my experience, have a smaller knowledge base than most regular internet players and as a result play very TWP in later blind levels. If you find yourself in a situation like this, and the blinds are between 5 and 10% of your stack you should probably be stealing at least once or twice an orbit when you get the chance. This will also increase your call equity when you actually have a monster. Lots of amateurs don't understand that your stealing range is around 25-30% of your starting hands, whereas it's likely to be closer to 88+ KJs+, AJs+ KQo, AQo+ when you're open raising from early position. They'll assume you're trying to make a standard steal raise and will call light.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Make sure you announce what you are going to do before you do it. For example if you are going to raise,announce raise before you do anything, count up and put the desired amount in.
This avoids any confusion as to how much you are betting/string bets etc etc.
I'm guessing a lot of internet only players frequently string bet. My major mistake once was to not announce raise then put in a single chip which was worth what I wanted to raise to.... Damn, its only a call  gladly someone pushed in behind and I had a fairly easy fold.
I totally agree with not looking at your hand until it is you to act. It helps to pick up reads on your opponent and lessen reads on you.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Liam^
Don't look at your hand until it's your go.
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This is just silly, look at your hand when you get it. That's what TJ Cloutier recommends, and god knows he's done a lot lately.
/starting serious comments now
Here is what I have found is much different about playing live vs online. Players have no idea how much money is in the pot. It's so easy online b/c the poker room tells us. However, live, the dealer will not tell you so it is your job to keep track. Also, if playing a tourney make sure you know how much is in your opponents' stacks at all times. Keep track, you really need to focus much more on these types of issues to play as well live as you do online. Most of the time your opponent's poor play makes up for it, but you still want to be playing as good as possible to maximize your earnings.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Liam^
Don't look at your hand until it's your go.
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Here is what I have found is much different about playing live vs online. Players have no idea how much money is in the pot. It's so easy online b/c the poker room tells us. However, live, the dealer will not tell you so it is your job to keep track. Also, if playing a tourney make sure you know how much is in your opponents' stacks at all times. Keep track, you really need to focus much more on these types of issues to play as well live as you do online. Most of the time your opponent's poor play makes up for it, but you still want to be playing as good as possible to maximize your earnings. |
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
live, the dealer will not tell you [how much is in the pot/stacks]
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Its a good tip to try to keep track of the stack/pot sizes but Id just like to add that you can ask for a count up whenever you want (if its your turn to act). Its best to save it for when you have a crucial decision though cos theyll get pissed if you do it every hand.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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They will count your opponents chips but not the one's in the middle. Those are the chips I was referring to.
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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If you wait until its your turn to act before looking at your cards, surely all eyes will be on you at this point and people are more likely to pick up reads from you?
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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hah, don't assume they are ever paying attention live.
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gop2004
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UB SNG
Posts: 92
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Quote:
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Here is what I have found is much different about playing live vs online. Players have no idea how much money is in the pot. It's so easy online b/c the poker room tells us. However, live, the dealer will not tell you so it is your job to keep track. Also, if playing a tourney make sure you know how much is in your opponents' stacks at all times.....
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This cannot be emphasized enough. In fact, I'd go play an hour or two at a live NL ring game before starting the tourney just to get the hang of it. Play ridiculously tight in this "practice" so you can focus on counting chips. Otherwise you'll spend the first 3-4 levels just getting used to it. You don't have to have exact numbers, just close estimates. This is experience talking! I was totally lost my first live NL game.
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Those who wander are often actually lost.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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The best way I've found is to count the total number of players entering the pot and think in terms of increments of the BB. Pot is 3BB or 5BB... Usually raises are even half increments of the blinds. If someone raises an odd amount just divide by the blind amount and round up or down accordingly.
Another good way is always counting the highest value chips first.
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Bugeye
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 25
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Well, I survived the tourney.... and didn't do too badly either. We started with 112 players on 12 tables. I got knocked out in 19th place. While I didn't make the money (just the top ten get paid), I felt really pretty good about lasting that long. I played incredibly (too?) tightly early in the tournament, then started opening things up as time progressed. My main observations:
1. I was completely lost at first. When was it my turn to act? How much was in the pot? How much were the blinds? What's the min amount I can raise? How the hell does the dealer keep track of everthing going on, with side pots, odd blinds being paid with even chips, etc. How the hell does anyone keep track. Yikes!
2. The table talk was really distracting at first. Doubly so, as most of the people knew each other and were trash talking and goofing around. Even the dealers were joking with some of the players.
3. There were some GOOD players at most of the tables I sat at. For instance, the first table I was at, I had a lady directly on my right who just finished tenth in the ladies NL tourney at the WSOP. To my left was the guy who won the tourney I was at two of the last five times, and across from me was a past AZ-state champion. Yikes!
4. I couldn't help not looking at my hand when it was dealt to me. I simply didn't have the will power. The ironic thing, however, was that when it was my turn to act, I had often forgotten what the hell hand I held and had to re-look at it! I swear, I suffered from temporary Alzheimers at that table. How the frig do you guys remember what was dealt to you? LOL.
5. While I couldn't help looking at my hand, I did make a concerted effort to act the same way, every hand. Look at my hand, put the hand down and place a chip on top. Facial expressions the same every time. Watch each player as he folded or bet. Wait until it was my turn to act (then, sigh, look at my cards again). Think about my position, what happened ahead of me, what the pot odds were, etc. Then fold or bet. This routine helped calm my actions... plus I think it made me kind of hard to read. For instance, I raised un-opened pot mid-pos with QQ 3x the BB. The button stared me down and then pushed all-in. I thought about it and then called, thinking he was bluffing. He was, and I doubled up. He commented afterward that he thought I was trying to steal the pot and figured me for nothing. I attribute his misread to my robot-like behavior.
6. There was a lot of aggression at the tables, including a lot of all-in moves, even relatively early in the tourney. Most hands ended pre- or post-flop. Only about 20% of the time did it go to the river for a show down.
7. The structure (especially the rapidly increasing blinds) was not great. It felt almost like a "Turbo" online sit and go. Luck had a fair bit to do with it.
8. I had a blast. It was VERY fun. I felt like a triple-A player called up to the bigs for the first time, but no matter. I'll be back.
-Bug
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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paratrooper99
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 135
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Congrats.... Casinos typically have a fast blind structure. I play them often and rely on blind stealing and c-betting 70-90% pot. This is quite effective. Example. Blinds 100/200. Folded around to me on button I raise to 750. BB calls. Pot is now 1800. I bet 1500 and take down the pot. I increase my stack 1050 with this move. It will work more than not and will keep you ahead of the increasing blinds. Also, for remembering your cards, some pros use a system where they give every card a name and memorize it. For example 4diamonds = pete rose ( for those unfamiliar he wore #4 and played on a baseball diamond ) or Qspades = Halle Berry - a dark skinned queen. might get a little tedious but it is something you can keep as your own too.
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