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BankItDrew
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04-28-2008, 07:53 AM
Post subject: Exposing Deaf Players
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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I'm interested in some of your ideas on how best to exploit deaf players during live play. One idea might be to mouth the words 'all-in' without actually saying it. The trick is obviously not to be noticed by anyone else at the table. I think it would be a great way to see how strong deaf villains hand is.
Thanks
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tom
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ATX
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proud of your cleverness are you?
you could also just wear a tshirt that says "I'm an asshole" for the same effect.
keep us updated!
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,818
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learn sign for 'whales make good sushi'
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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OP must be the resident jackass
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I think [good] deaf players would be conditioned enough to not be reading lips during the game because they would know these things.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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hahaha I love how a drunken conversation turned out to be a pretty interesting discussion.
I think being deaf in live is definitely a big advantage. Before people get pissed at this discussion, it started because I stacked a deaf person at a live game this weekend. I saw him doing some pretty sick calls/plays and watched him analyze everyone in detail. Since so many of our cycles are burned up from sounds, I can only think it's +ev. People mimic deafness by putting on earphones and such, no?
and
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One idea might be to mouth the words 'all-in' without actually saying it
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LAWL
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tom
proud of your cleverness are you?
you could also just wear a tshirt that says "I'm an asshole" for the same effect.
keep us updated!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
OP must be the resident jackass
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The funny thing is that lemon and I are the assholes, discussing ways to exploit deaf players while drunk, trying to sleep at 6 in the morning...drew (a far nicer guy than either of us) was just laughing at us
...then drew catches the flak
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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anyone who feels that it is 'immoral' to try and exploit deaf tendancies to get an edge in poker should quit the game immediately, and re-evaluate their hyper-political correctness.
Do deaf people want to be treated as if they are 'handicapped'? If no, then why treat them any differently than any other player? Good poker players try to exploit any characteristic of their opponent whether it be drunkeness or deafness.
Poker is a cutthroat game.
Get used to it you pack of knee-jerk PC nuts 
FWIW, after much pensive though on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that deaf players have an edge due to the fact that they are forced to rely on body language reading in day to day life far more than the rest of us are so they'll be more sensitive to the kind of changes that you need to observe to pick out tells.
I like the mouthing all-in technique though. Have to try that next time I'm in a big pot with a deaf guy...
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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Anyone see the hand during WSOP where the deaf guy beat Hevad Khan? Very well played hand, and afterwards he put his foot up on the table and leaned way back and mimicked reeling in a big fish. It is true that any deaf player in a cash game or tourney does not want or need to be patronized.
Interesting comment about the artificial deafness created by headphones. I think this is true.
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Sue me if I play too long....
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
drew was just laughing at us
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i couldn't help it, you guys are honestly hysterically funny. from deaf ev plays to being half viking.. i couldn't take it all
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
anyone who feels that it is 'immoral' to try and exploit deaf tendancies to get an edge in poker should quit the game immediately, and re-evaluate their hyper-political correctness.
Do deaf people want to be treated as if they are 'handicapped'? If no, then why treat them any differently than any other player? Good poker players try to exploit any characteristic of their opponent whether it be drunkeness or deafness.
Poker is a cutthroat game.
Get used to it you pack of knee-jerk PC nuts
FWIW, after much pensive though on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that deaf players have an edge due to the fact that they are forced to rely on body language reading in day to day life far more than the rest of us are so they'll be more sensitive to the kind of changes that you need to observe to pick out tells.
I like the mouthing all-in technique though. Have to try that next time I'm in a big pot with a deaf guy... |
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run.
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It's obvious to me that you just don't have the winning spirit...
...try solitare perhaps 
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
anyone who feels that it is 'immoral' to try and exploit deaf tendancies to get an edge in poker should quit the game immediately, and re-evaluate their hyper-political correctness.
Do deaf people want to be treated as if they are 'handicapped'? If no, then why treat them any differently than any other player? Good poker players try to exploit any characteristic of their opponent whether it be drunkeness or deafness.
Poker is a cutthroat game.
Get used to it you pack of knee-jerk PC nuts
FWIW, after much pensive though on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that deaf players have an edge due to the fact that they are forced to rely on body language reading in day to day life far more than the rest of us are so they'll be more sensitive to the kind of changes that you need to observe to pick out tells.
I like the mouthing all-in technique though. Have to try that next time I'm in a big pot with a deaf guy... |
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run. |
Are you trying to tell me that you would not try to take advantage of a drunk player? Deaf and drunk both seem like disadvantages to me. Don't tell me both are completely different either; because who knows, maybe the deaf guy did it to himself by doing something stupid like light a firecracker in his ear. You never know.
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not.
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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Can we not all agree that being deaf would give you an advantage? And where there's advantages, there's disadvantages?
And I don't know about you guys, but I have this one old chick on my bus that I KNOW is in competition with me everytime we get off at our stop after work, she tries to beat me to the subway. I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
Can we not all agree that being deaf would give you an advantage? And where there's advantages, there's disadvantages?
And I don't know about you guys, but I have this one old chick on my bus that I KNOW is in competition with me everytime we get off at our stop after work, she tries to beat me to the subway. I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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The subway will only let 1 of you 2 on? 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
anyone who feels that it is 'immoral' to try and exploit deaf tendancies to get an edge in poker should quit the game immediately, and re-evaluate their hyper-political correctness.
Do deaf people want to be treated as if they are 'handicapped'? If no, then why treat them any differently than any other player? Good poker players try to exploit any characteristic of their opponent whether it be drunkeness or deafness.
Poker is a cutthroat game.
Get used to it you pack of knee-jerk PC nuts
FWIW, after much pensive though on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that deaf players have an edge due to the fact that they are forced to rely on body language reading in day to day life far more than the rest of us are so they'll be more sensitive to the kind of changes that you need to observe to pick out tells.
I like the mouthing all-in technique though. Have to try that next time I'm in a big pot with a deaf guy... |
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run. |
Oh shut the fuck up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not.
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It is for THIS guy:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not.
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It is for THIS guy:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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lolololol
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run.
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It's obvious to me that you just don't have the winning spirit...
...try solitare perhaps |
guess what if you have skill you don't need to result to cheap tricks. The fact that you rely on little tricks makes me think you don'thave any skill. Also people that have the winning spirit as you put it rely on skill. I think you have the winning spirit confused with the spirit of being a dirty underhanded bastard.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
anyone who feels that it is 'immoral' to try and exploit deaf tendancies to get an edge in poker should quit the game immediately, and re-evaluate their hyper-political correctness.
Do deaf people want to be treated as if they are 'handicapped'? If no, then why treat them any differently than any other player? Good poker players try to exploit any characteristic of their opponent whether it be drunkeness or deafness.
Poker is a cutthroat game.
Get used to it you pack of knee-jerk PC nuts
FWIW, after much pensive though on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that deaf players have an edge due to the fact that they are forced to rely on body language reading in day to day life far more than the rest of us are so they'll be more sensitive to the kind of changes that you need to observe to pick out tells.
I like the mouthing all-in technique though. Have to try that next time I'm in a big pot with a deaf guy... |
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run. |
Are you trying to tell me that you would not try to take advantage of a drunk player? Deaf and drunk both seem like disadvantages to me. Don't tell me both are completely different either; because who knows, maybe the deaf guy did it to himself by doing something stupid like light a firecracker in his ear. You never know.
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not. |
The 2 may may not be related but my point is the ass that would take advantage of a def person is the same kinda jerk that would shove an old person out of the way. You see you are either a jerk or you are not a jerk.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,818
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i don't see how being deaf is a disadvantage in poker - so what's the problem?
and i'm happy to take advantage of those who are stupid, drunk, less skilled etc just as people with more skill do the same to me... does that make me a bad person. probably
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not.
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It is for THIS guy:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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Lol.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not.
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It is for THIS guy:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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and to think lemon was on my side...
nice catch btw
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Bad analogy with the old person on the street btw. poker is a competition, walking around outside is not.
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It is for THIS guy:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sweetlemon69
I have to resort to cutting diagonally across the intersection, doing crazy shit she won't do, just to ensure I win. This, is the same thing.(?)
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and to think lemon was on my side...
nice catch btw |
oh i'm totally on your side This is just one of those stories you want to tell everyone how you're pwning an older lady crossing the street everyday, but never have the appropriate time to tell it. This could for sure be argued not appropriate also lol. but yeah, being deaf is definitely +ev live.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
The 2 may may not be related but my point is the ass that would take advantage of a def person is the same kinda jerk that would shove an old person out of the way. You see you are either a jerk or you are not a jerk.
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You can't see the difference between trying to get an edge in a cutthroat game that everyone is voluntarily participating in, and bilking the vulnerable?
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Originally Posted by littleogre
You see you are either a jerk or you are not a jerk.
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It must be nice to view the world in such a black and white fashion. Those shades of gray really complicate things. Are you 14 by chance?
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
i don't see how being deaf is a disadvantage in poker - so what's the problem?
and i'm happy to take advantage of those who are stupid, drunk, less skilled etc just as people with more skill do the same to me... does that make me a bad person. probably
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Being deaf would be a disadvantage because you couldn't hear the table chatter that occasionally gives a clue whether the player is strong or weak on a hand.
But I think that there would be advantages too in terms of the level of focus. Blindness would be a much greater disadvantage for the same reason.
I think that anyone who sits down at a cash game understands that he will not be patronized because of his disability. Just don't cheat the player, just as you would not cheat any other player.
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Sue me if I play too long....
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tom
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ATX
Posts: 158
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez
I think that anyone who sits down at a cash game understands that he will not be patronized because of his disability. Just don't cheat the player, just as you would not cheat any other player.
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I couldn't figure out a way to put it exactly but this is how I feel. Good post.
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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agreed. well put
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok i honestly don't know how anyone can compare being a drunk to being def. I don't know many people that choose to be def. Pretty much all drunks on the otherhand are drunk by their own choice.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
The 2 may may not be related but my point is the ass that would take advantage of a def person is the same kinda jerk that would shove an old person out of the way. You see you are either a jerk or you are not a jerk.
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You can't see the difference between trying to get an edge in a cutthroat game that everyone is voluntarily participating in, and bilking the vulnerable?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
You see you are either a jerk or you are not a jerk.
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It must be nice to view the world in such a black and white fashion. Those shades of gray really complicate things. Are you 14 by chance? |
Taking advantage of the handicap is just that no matter how you slice it. Not trying to come off like mr goodie pants but the tactic that the OP suggest is pretty darn low IMHO
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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I compare mouthing "all in" to a deaf person to something like pretending to put your chips in (like todd brunson did vs phil laak on the last season of high stakes poker). It's the kind of thing that is generally frowned upon. Some people hate it. Some don't really care though.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
I compare mouthing "all in" to a deaf person to something like pretending to put your chips in (like todd brunson did vs phil laak on the last season of high stakes poker). |
Yeah I think that's dirty...I'd never do that.
I might try mouthing something like "I slept with your wife last night" to tilt him, but "all in"? That's below the belt, toying with gameplay like that.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
I compare mouthing "all in" to a deaf person to something like pretending to put your chips in (like todd brunson did vs phil laak on the last season of high stakes poker). |
Yeah I think that's dirty...I'd never do that.
I might try mouthing something like "I slept with your wife last night" to tilt him, but "all in"? That's below the belt, toying with gameplay like that. |
ya, although i frown upon it, i definitely don't think it's in the "you're mean to handicap ppls" category.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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tom
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ATX
Posts: 158
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except when you mouth the words all-in you're adding in a tinge of "hey look what I can do cause you're deaf! haha silly deaf person thought I really said all in! I'm so clever!" type of vibe to the table.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,074
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Oh i see your motto is win if you can loose if you must but always be a dirty under handed jerk. I mean if you choose to be that way it's a free world. Do you knock old people out of the way if the are are slowing you down. Oh and you can have common human decency and still be a good player. When was the last time you heard of a world class player pulling some dirty underhanded crap. Secondly if you are a donk stealing a few pots from a deaf guy isn't gonna change anything in the long run.
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It's obvious to me that you just don't have the winning spirit...
...try solitare perhaps |
guess what if you have skill you don't need to result to cheap tricks. The fact that you rely on little tricks makes me think you don'thave any skill. Also people that have the winning spirit as you put it rely on skill. I think you have the winning spirit confused with the spirit of being a dirty underhanded bastard. |
Remember that blind guy at the WSOP last year? He had a guy sittin' next to him to read his cards for him and tell him the board/action. He got on TV, had every news agency trying to interview him, had his 15 minutes of fame. Heck, he even played pretty decent. Disadvantage? Yeah, but so what? He chose to pay 10 grand, get on TV, have some fun. And I think it would be disrespectful to his courage and spirit to NOT try to kick his ass, as long as you were playing within the rules of the game.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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great thread imo
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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OMG
This brings back great memories of Niagara Falls.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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lol i like this forum, havent seen another for beating deaf players
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Purple_Pwner
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 13
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Originally Posted by d0zer
FWIW, after much pensive though on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that deaf players have an edge due to the fact that they are forced to rely on body language reading in day to day life far more than the rest of us are so they'll be more sensitive to the kind of changes that you need to observe to pick out tells.
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Agreed
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06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
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