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ShadySully

08-06-2004, 12:35 AM Post subject: Different Tournament Set ups

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: The Felt

Posts: 51

Hey all,

Over the past 10 months I've been hosting tourneys once or twice a week. I've tried every combination of set ups I can think of and I finally found something I think works best for our games.

Things I've tried:

Timed Blinds or By the number of hands: I think most people play timed blinds and it works really well. I've tried raising the blinds every 10 hands and it works well too. One thing to note is that when the games get short handed 10 hands go by real quick and if your blind structure is increasing in large increments then in effect your blinds are going up huge like every 10-20 minutes.

Blind Structures

1. Blinds start real low and go up in small increments very slowly. eg. every hour. These games last a LONG time. This could be good if you're planning on playing all day. You definately get alot of bang for your buck and the best poker players usually end up successful.

2. Blinds start low but go up in large increments very quickly. eg. 15, 20, 30 minutes. These games go real quick! 8 guys might be able to play 2 games in a night. What we've found though, is these types of tourneys end up being somewhat of a crapshoot. If you can hang on till the blinds get huge and catch a few lucky hands you'll usually be in the money. On the other hand you could've played great poker all night and get a bad run of cards for 5-10 hands and bam your out!

3. Blinds start medium-ish and go up in large increments but very slowly. eg. every hour. These games last a little longer than #2 and are very interesting. The blinds start a fair bit higher than usual so there isn't as much "limping in" in the early stages. People play tighter but the pots are bigger and the chips really move around. Fun

4. Blinds start real low and go up in small increments but very quickly. eg. Every 10, 15, 20 minutes. This is by far the structure I like the best. The games last a little longer than #2 and #3 but it seems like the perfect setup for home games. The majority of people get to play for 2-3 hours and then the final 3-4 people play for about another hour after that.

What I find dissappointing is that most tourneys I've played in online, at other peoples houses, or at the local pub all seem to follow the #2 set up. The blinds go up soooo fast that the whole thing ends up being a crap shoot and luck really rules the game for the most part.

The other thing I've noticed with #2 type tourneys is that there is a point when the blinds are getting huge. There are usually 4-6 people left and the whole game slows down. Getting involved in a single hand could cost you your whole stack! Preflop raises happen less and aren't as large in comparison to the blinds. Eg. AK usually gets a big raise when the blinds are small. Maybe 3-6 x BB. But when the blinds get huge a raise like that is your whole stack! Some people think this is the only way to play and that's just the way it is. Maybe they're right. However.....

We played the #4 setup last night and everyone started with 2000 in chips. The blinds started 10-20, 15-30, 20-40, 25-50 etc. Going up every 20 minutes. About 2.5 - 3 hours later at 4 handed the blinds were only 200-400. That probably seems low but it didn't slow the game down one bit. We all had at least 4000 in chips at the time so the blinds weren't the ruling factor of the game. There were tons of big preflop raises and the action wasn't like a #2 set up where everyone gets desperate because the blinds are going up so fast. Luck still plays a huge roll in any poker game but this structure seemed to lessen the luck factor a bit and let skilled play shine.

Number of chips: I've played starting out with 20 chips all the way to 100 chips. All I can say is that more seems better. Its just more fun playing with lots of chips and having a "stack" in front of you. 100 is probably too many but 60-70 seems perfect.

Chip denomination: I think I've tried every combination possible. The one thing I've notice is that when you make your denominations in multiples of 5 then counting chips is quicker and easier. Keeping the deminations close in value helps alot too. Eg. 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250 etc. works great because two of one color usually equals the next denomination. Having big jumps in denominations will make counting chips tedious. eg. 1, 5, 25, 100, 1000 isn't that great because now you are counting in fives, tens, and twenties when using your small chips.

Buy-in amount Not the amount everyone pays to play, but the chip value everyone starts with. Its really personal preference and depends all on the denominations you choose and how many chips you have. Some people think its silly having chips values like 100, 250, 500, 1000 and starting with 50000 only to win a pot of $80 bucks. Some people like having the values like .25, .50, 1.00, 2.00, 5.00 etc.

What I thinks works best goes along with the #4 Blind set up mentioned above. Give everyone 2000 - 5000 or more value in chips and give everyone plenty of chips to bet with. That way you can start your blinds low and go up in very small increments. You can raise your blinds every 10, 15, 20 minutes whatever you like. This might seem like a really passive blind structure if you've been playing the #2 type tourneys but trust me its been working great for our games so far. The games have only been lasting about 1/2 hour longer than our #2 type tourneys. As well the best poker players seem to shine rather than the goofballs without a clue who just get lucky and win the whole thing.

Hope this helps anybody who likes to play home games.

Don't eat the Dessicant

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michael1123

08-06-2004, 04:22 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

Very interesting post.

One thing that came to mind, is the WPT final tables vs. the WSOP lesser event final tables. With the WPT, only the shortest couple of stacks ever seem to be in a position where they need to go all in on any hands they play immediately, because the blinds are very managable compared to the stack sizes. But with the NL WSOP events that have been televised recently, there's a ton more all ins preflop that really reduce the level of poker that can be played.

And with online MTTs, forget about it. Unless you're very near the biggest stack, by the time you get to the final table its basically an all in or fold situation for everyone. Really increases the luck factor.

CRUSHER

08-17-2004, 01:04 AM Post subject: 3 Blind Mice

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Tulsa, OK (the land of happy people)

Posts: 32

Excellent post and one that seems to be ignored for the most part. I appear to be in some kind of minority to believe it is fair to start off a tournament with a decent amount of chips, with multiple demoninations and with blinds that start off slow and increase every half hour.

I hear complaints that small blind increases means the tournament takes too long. To me, a tournament reflects a long, well-fought battle. Last person standing. Like a great game of Risk. To others, it's about getting it over quick. Perhaps they know they'll be out soon and would rather play two games? I dunno.

I believe the main thing that is overlooked is the starting chip count/demonination and the blind increase. I think you should have a good amount of chips to start (1000 or 1500) and set up the blinds accordingly (maybe $10/$20.) Let the blinds increase every half hour and start off small. Otherwise whomever wins the first couple of hands probably has the biggest advantage.

Anyway, that's my limited opinion and I'm sticking to it.

-Crusher

davfagan

08-17-2004, 01:50 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Warren, MI

Posts: 184

Michael, in regards to your noted difference of the two. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that most of those final tables are the second day of those events, and they usually last ALL day. Plus, they have 9 (for Hold 'em), compared to only 6 on the WPT. So ESPN, is trying to show how 9 players went out in a whole day's worth of play in just an hour. Some of those final tables lasted almost as long as the final table in the main event last year, and that final table was like 2 or 3 episodes if I remember correctly.

It all comes down to production, and trying to pick out the best hands to show. One thing I don't like about the WPT, is how whenever a player goes all-in, they build it up so huge, like it was the second coming of Christ or something. I think some of the players try to act it up a little bit too on the WPT, where as at the WSOP they are a little more reserved. Unless your Scott Fischmann and jump all over the table like an idiot, of course he is part of "The Crew", so I guess that explains it.

"Why does this still seem like gambling to you!?"

michael1123

08-17-2004, 06:48 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

I'm sure they're cutting it up a lot. But still, the WPT blinds are set up in such a way that they go up very slowly, since the events are almost entirely set up to make for good TV, and I'm sure the blind increases are slower than they are in the WSOP non-main events.

And also in those events, there seem to be more preflop all ins that they show (and they even seem to cut out some, as sometimes you'll see them comeback from break to show a player leaving the table) than the number that happen in the WPT events. Let alone the small stacks genuinely seeming to have to make their move much faster than in the WSOP events.

FyrFytr998

08-18-2004, 12:46 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Milford,Ct.

Posts: 1,412

I like the #4 set up also when I play a home game.

I usually run a T2000 chip tourney. And start blinds at 25/50. I set a time limit of 20 minutes with a 5 minute break in between levels. Which makes it long enough but not too long. My chip breakdowns is (20) $25, (10) $100, and (1) $500.

Big Lick

Karsk

08-23-2004, 03:36 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 75

The tourney I run at home usually has around 2 tables worth, with a max limit of 3 tables. I go with a good amount of starting chips(1500) and kinda merge the blind types. Start low for the first hour then blinds go up slowly, two times the next hour, then three times the hour after that to get things going towards a conclusion. After that its back down to two blind increases per hour. Usually results in a fairly long tournament (5 hours last time) but everyone plays for at least an hour or two.

codemachine

08-24-2004, 04:50 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Undisclosed

Posts: 87

Interesting discussion. My home game seems to keep people entertained. Everyone starts with 800 in chips, 1/2 blinds, and no ante. First two rounds are 30 minutes and then 20 min rounds after that. Blinds increase as follows:
1/2
2/4
5/10 (use extra 5 chips to buy out the singles)
10/20
20/40
50/100 (use extra 25s to buy out the 5s)
100/200
200/400
500/1000

The denominations of my chips are 1,5,25,100. I've gotten pretty fast at couting and stacking chips

Half the time when someone puts in a stack and someone asks how much it is, I've already counted it and tell them while the better starts looking at their chips tryin to count it 8-)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cod3machin3
-=insert witty, thought provoking comment here=-

Shadowskills

10-22-2004, 04:22 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 62

Great post. I was looking for suggestions on blinds structure and this is an excellent post with great information.

I went ahead and did an excel spreadsheet for blinds method 4 and 2 each with 8 minute blinds increase. This is what I've came up with.

Here's method 4.

5/10
10/20
15/30
20/40
25/50
3060
35/70
40/80
45/90
50/100
55/110
60/120
65/130
70/140
75/150

Notice the linear increase in method 4.

Here's method 2:

We would do our home game blinds like this but with $350 worth of chips.

1/2
2/4
3/6
4/8
5/10
10/20
15/30
20/40
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
250/500

Notice the exponential increase.

With that in mind, I'm going to use method 4 because it's more geared toward skill rather than luck. With a starting chip count of $800-$1500 depending on how long we want it to last and how many people is playing.

Does anyone know what the blinds structure is in WSOP?

lowriders

10-25-2004, 06:46 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Posts: 9

Great post. This was exactly what I was looking for.

The group I'm playing with are a little tight when it comes to how much they want to gamble with. So we've come up with $20 total each to start.

What you recommend to make it last awhile. It's more for fun with these guys than for money.

I have 200 chips but I know I'll need at least 400.

Oh ya, around 5-6 players.

FyrFytr998

10-26-2004, 01:17 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Milford,Ct.

Posts: 1,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowriders

A good rule of thumb is to aspire to have at least a 500 chip set up for up to 10 players.

Big Lick

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