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RockyMoose
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11-30-2009, 04:30 PM
Post subject: Collusion or foreplay?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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I've seen situations like this twice now, once at $1$2NL and again yesterday at a $3/6 limit table:
A young couple, husband and wife, sit down together at the table (not always next to each other), and proceed to go crazy-aggro on the entire table. If anyone opens or raises, one re-raises and the other re-re-raises. They are both in a ton of hands, picking up blinds and limpers and flop bets like crazy. In one case, they were smack-talking each other, and in the other they were quiet and reserved, yet the action was the same.
They cleaned up both times, and had the table paralyzed in the meantime.
What's your strategy in these situations? Get up and leave?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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So someones putting a tonne of money in a lot? uhhhhh call a lot?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,608
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It's not collusion, and I see nothing wrong with it. They are both exploiting the tables weaknesses. Just because they are familiar with each other shouldn't impact whether it's correct or not. This post wouldn't have been made if phil ivey and daniel negreanu sat at a table and played super aggro, 3betting and 4betting often.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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It's hard to say if it's collusion or not. If they have worked out a system where they signal to one another when to raise, call, or get out of the way or anything like that, that is obviously not legal. I might be a little suspicious if they kept re-raising each other because couples that I see in live games usually try to avoid each other if anything. If they are trying to build a pot around limpers or something and then put in a big raise to steal it, that sound unethical, too. But, the simple act of raising and being aggressive isn't enough. You'd have to try to narrow it down to where they are working WITH each other and not independent of one another.
As for how to defend against this, I'd say it's all about position. If you are constantly in between them, you'll probably have to stay out of pots unless it's a premium hand and then be even more aggressive than them. Once you have position and can close the action, you just play like normal. I had a similar situation online once @ either $10NL or $25NL. Two morons kept min raising each other every hand pre-flop until it would reach 15x the bb or so. I even made a note on each player with something like "player x colluding with player y?" and vice versa.
It can get dicey because if you're not the last to act, someone can always put more money in. But, poker is not a team sport, so just like everything else, you need to evaluate your hand, the action, and exploit accordingly. Fortunately, it usually only takes a hand or two to hold up to foil anyone with any hyper-aggressive style.
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- Jason
 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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GAMB000000000000L!!!!!!!!!
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stinger
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 57
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My wife and I both play poker and at times we find ourselves at the same table if the casino is crowded. WE both play our own hands and the only time there is any collusion is if its heads up then we just check it down.
I do wonder at toimes iof there is collusion when I see players getting too friendly and changing seats to sit nerxt to each other.
Last night this happened. The player first ti act would straddle for 11.00 If there were five callers or more the player on his right would raise to 75.00 and usually pick up the 55.00 in straddle money.
I have seen younger players pass money to each other when one of them has gone broke so I am assuming they are pooling there winnings and most likely have some kind of betting stragity worked out
As I said earlier if you dont get the cards it doesnt matter so bring it on.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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You don't need signals to collude.
OP is right. If they do it purposely to push out other players, it's collusion.
Say one of them opens, someone calls, the partner calls... and then on the flop it goes bet, player in the middle calls, the partner 2-bets big and the original raiser 3-bets all-in.
- I got into a raise war with an internet kid last month: I had a combo draw, the kid had TP and a guy in the middle folded a set - dug it out of the muck after the hand. XD
That would be super scary online. Live
Of course they might just be gamblers, who knows.
Don't accuse someone of cheating before you have some proof - a hand that showed down that can only really be explained by collusion - but I'd still rather just change tables.
The dealers should notice sooner or later anyway.
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