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stinger
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10-12-2009, 07:21 PM
Post subject: Cashing in on poor play
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 57
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I was playing 1/2 live NL when on the button I got Ad Jd. Ith had been a fairly aggressive game with lost of pre flop raising. There were four limpers so I just limped in also to see what was what. I could hardly believe the flop. 3 ACES. I had Quad aces. UTG checked, That pissed me off) 2 player bet 10.00 3 folded and the no 4 player bet 15.00. UTG folded I just called.
Turn was (who cares) and 2 player checked as did 3. No 4 made it 50.00. I faked deliberation and called. 2 and 3 folded. River was ?? and no 4 went all-in, I immediately called and turne ove the A-J He had been playing KK.
Looking back I wonder if I would have called a 20-30.00 bet pre flop. I guess he wanted to slow play his KK. All and all it was avery interesting evening cashing out 1100.00 minus a 400.00 buy in which has really boosted my win rate for the month
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Limping behind there is pretty bad. most of the time you're not going to flop the immortal nuts but TP and you'll get yourself in difficult situations.
Don't try to fake anything. Wait a couple of seconds before you take an action, but don't put on a show. A somewhat experienced live player will know that your hand is very strong if you sigh or take 30 sec. to make a call getting 5:1.
Anyway... just the fact that you think this hand is interesting in any way shows that you're not very experienced and your edge is probably relatively small. Make sure you're not playing over your head. Even when you're winning over the course of a couple of months doesn't mean that you're a winning player in the long term. If you haven't already, start playing online and get a tracking program - it will help you get a lot more hands in a shorter period of time and help you improve your fundamentals.
Learning some basic poker terms wouldn't hurt either 
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Any ppl can win BIG money with quads  You might be better off showing us some situations where you've got to make some tough decisions. There are many times i see some donkey players in my local casino walk away with $1k by the end of the night but their technical part of poker is just horrible.
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stinger
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 57
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I know anyone can win with quads. My point was that the player with the KK opened the door for anyone. If I had floped another A, two diamonds, Q,J etc he would have been out of luck. I had so many outs. I only limped in because given the tempo of the table I felt that was a way to build the pot. Most of the players were folding to a 12.00 to 15.00 raise.
I play live at least 6 times a month and online everyday so I have plenty of hands that I have to make a tough decision on and like everyone else they are not always correct.
I didnt wait 30 seconds I only counted out my bet and then restacked it before I pushed it out.
How would I get in a difficult situtation if I would have folpedm TP, I would have just bet out and the player with KK seeing an ace on the flop would have probably folded. I am sure noone at the table figured me for the 4th ACE,
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stinger
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 57
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I watched several players last night chase flushes, straight draws etc and for awhile they had amassed a nice stack of chips, but as I was leaving I noticed they were all running low.
One player had been up about 550.00 but he was down to about 150.00 when I left.
He had taken a big pot from me with 5-9 suited against my trip 7,s but I got most of it back later with AA when he played another small flush draw that didnt hit.
It was interesting to watch his play. He played alot f hands and chased everything. If he hit he would show his cards... if you called him and he folded he would not. He bluffed alot and towards the end of the evening I and many others at the table had caught on.
One hand that I won was a scary board, I had As, Js and the flop was Kh,Qh, 10d. the turn was an 8h. I had the straight but there were three hearts on the board and I was facing a big bet. I cant fold so I called and the river was a 5c. He checked the river and I bet..... he folded.
One other hand I had QQ and the flop netural. I bet out and was called by one other player. The flop was 10,9, 5 and I bet and was immediately called by one player. The turn was a K I bet and he went all in. I folded.
One other hand I had Kh10h the BB. The flop was Kc,10c,7s and I bet 15.00 and got two callers. The turn was a 9h and I bet 20.00 and got one caller. The river was an Ac and I decided to check. My one caller bet out 75.00. I folded. He showed the Jc,5c. With four to the flush on the flop I dont thin k I could have bet him out of the pot given the way he had been playing.
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
Limping behind there is pretty bad
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Question about this: really? I'm a tourney player just getting started and reading up on NL, and I would think that a suited A on the button with a few limpers ahead of me is a playable hand, especially if there are large stacks.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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It's because of how the hand plays. You're going to flop a flush draw 11% of the time, and a pair more than twice as often. The flushdraw is easy to play, but against 3 limpers top pair won't play nearly as well. You can definitely play it profitable, but for a couple of reasons I think raising is a much much better option:
Their limp/calling range is rarely anything that can flop tptk on J, Q, K, A high boards, so unless they hang on for dear life with tpnk or they flopped 2pair or better (odds depend on board texture) then you can get them to fold with a c-bet and a barrel (situational) on these boards.
Especially live where most opponents have no clue how the pot size factors into their decision making, and you can just c-bet 1/4 pot against most guys and take it down if they haven't hit.
Obviously if you paired up you don't want them to fold worse... I might size my betting differently if I thought they didn't pay attention, but that's off-topic.
Even in case I hit a FD I'm not so sure I'm that much more happy with it multi-way. You fold out a couple of potential flushdraws that you would dominate by raising, but when you flop a 4-flush it's that much more unlikely that someone holds 2 of the same suit. They are apeshit paranoid about draws with their monster hands, so you're not alwas getting payed off when you hit... and when you're heads-up having a draw is just awesome to semi-bluff. You barely need any fold-equity, especially if you can successfully underbet against an old guy.
Aaaaand if you limp behind you can forget about bluffing the flop without initiative and people having 10x plus your bet size behind, so you pretty much need to make a hand to win the pot (me no like).
grasp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RockyMoose
especially if there are large stacks.
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stack sizes matter a lot, but I won't go through a million scenarios when there's no real hand to talk about. If we knew individual stack sizes in addition to history with, and tendencies of the limpers there might be a case for limping sometimes... but I don't feel like dreaming up some scenario.
Ok I will... UTG limper is 9/8 over a large sample... there you go... limp behind every time. lohlz
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stinger
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 57
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The main difference IMO between ring games and tournament is that you want to play cautiously to lower the field. In ring games every hand srands alone and you can re-buy as much as you want. If you go all-in and lose you are not out of the game.un;ess ypu decide to quit.
Tournament stragity is to play fewer hands until your in the money and then play aggressive at least thats what I read.
In live ring games you can only be short stacked by the limit of your bankroll. If you drop below a certain level you can reach into your pocket, if you have them, and pull out mnore chips as long as you stay within the table limits.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Good God, I need to play live more often.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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sk8r_daniel
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Good God, I need to play live more often.
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Lol, yes.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stinger
The turn was a 9h and I bet 20.00 and got one caller. The river was an Ac and I decided to check.
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Go and learn about negating opponents drawing odds. Your hand is extremely vulnerable here, and taking down the pot right now is a good result. Betting 20 dollars is only asking to get drawed out on. Luckily you made a good fold on the river, but trust me, if i was playing with you I could call your bet and bluff you on the river because I know you fear the club. If you pound the turn I can't really bluff, and I'm not getting odds on my flush draw.
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