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daeyeth
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10-14-2009, 01:16 AM
Post subject: Call with AQs but muck AQo? Why?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 63
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I was reading Renton's 169 Hand SS-NLHE ring guide and I came across something I don't quite understand why you do it. I'm a beginner.
Quote:
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MP (2-5th to act preflop)- Raise 99+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs like UTG but add a few more hands. As the chance that you will have position after the flop increases (as you get closer to the button), it becomes more profitable to add in KQo and AJo, and in 5th position I would probably even raise KJs and ATs. Limp all the other pairs. If there is a raise in front from a standard player (for our purposes from now on a “standard player” raises 10% of his hands and has a vpip of 20%), just call with AQs, 99, TT, and JJ, and muck AJ, AQ, and KQ and call with all other pairs.
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I'm confused because I read that suits only add +3% to a hand and the guides say not to put too much value into suited hands, yet at the same time, all the guides also say you can play AQs but not AQo. Why is that?
Isn't this just the conservative long term view of pro poker players who play thousands of hands, and therefore that +3% means something? Is it that big of a difference between AQs and AQo? For a beginner like me, it's really hard to fold AQ just because it's not suited.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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His FR guide is better suited to online tight aggressive games. You need live standard to crush those casino loose soft games. I know I play different live than online. I rarely limp in online games but i do this quite often in live passive games cuz those donks at casino are so terrible that they will surely pay off big money to your big hand 
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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It isn't so much the 3%, although that is bigger than it looks, it's the 10% or so you flop a flush draw which makes the hand much easier to play.
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daeyeth
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 63
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
It isn't so much the 3%, although that is bigger than it looks, it's the 10% or so you flop a flush draw which makes the hand much easier to play.
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Ahhh I see, thanks. That makes a lot of sense.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Also, on a broader level, don't get obsessed with starting hand charts. They have their value, but:
(1) in games against weaker players, it is possible to win money playing a variety of different strategies with starting hands, as long as you understand (a) what plays well multi-way and what plays well heads up, and (b) the importance of position; and
(2) as games get stronger at higher limits, it is very important that you are aware of what the other players are doing, and this becomes as important or more important than the strength of your hand, or even its strength relative to its position.
To use an example directly from the text you cited to, it can be an absolutely terrible idea to call with a small pocket pair after a raise under the gun from a very tight aggressive player if the players left to act are likely to fold to the raise. That's the sort of thing that can put you heads up in a situation where you have only a 1 in 5 chance of winning the hand and can also be bluffed out of it by hands you beat like AK and AQ. On the other hand, if you are going to get several callers behind you, the same call is perfectly OK.
So, don't obsess about whether it is "right" or "wrong" to play any particular starting hand. Instead, try to figure out what the best play is based on the action in front of you and the type of players who acted, and the action that is likely to transpire behind you.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
It isn't so much the 3%, although that is bigger than it looks, it's the 10% or so you flop a flush draw which makes the hand much easier to play.
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It also will flop more combination hands and weak draws.
A lot of NLHE is using draw equity to hedge your bluffs.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
A lot of poker is using draw equity to hedge your bluffs.
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Fixed that for ya.
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mz102489
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: utg
Posts: 76
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so in lower stakes live games should i be playing A thru 5s more even if its raised pf in hopes ill flop the nuts or a draw?
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sk8r_daniel
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 330
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Yes, but try and pick the best players to call bets with the Axs hands.
Generally, you want to pick players who over value top pair and donk off their stack. Or it will be bad, tight casino regs who can be easily bluffed when AQ and AK miss. Check the Board Texture: How likely is it that their hand range hit this board?
Don't do it against good tight opponents or random players you dont know.
Other good hands to play for cheap in good situations are hands like: 56s-QJs, 22-77, and sooted one gappers. Warning: Don't add too many hands at first.
Good Luck![/b]
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