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lineof7s
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08-07-2004, 04:59 AM
Post subject: Big tells
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 26
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what are some major tells that you guys have seen in live games, and how much do you let something you think could be a tell affect your decisions?
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nick87
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 53
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When players look away and act timid, alot of times it means they have good hands. Also when they lean forward, act confrontational and are really aggressive and intimidating about everything, that usually means they are bluffing. There's tons of tells but those have been the most useful to me.
hard breathing also sometimes means they have a good hand. (they are acting stressed)
pay attention to body language, if they are comfortable, and relaxed, but betting decent or calling you, they may have good hand
humming, whistling and smoking, patterns like that. If your guy is whistling and he bets but you grab your chips like you are about to call or raise, and he stops whistling, he may be bluffing.
also a big one with players is when they look at their cards after the flop and immediately look at their chips. They may have a good hand. That one usually only applys to begginning or inexperienced players.
I don't count on it to much becuase I have before and I've lost too much money. I always try my best to notice patterns throughout the game, start testing 'em alittle bit and see what tells I can use later on. but I'm very very careful about it. Its hard to do that stuff, especially if you are playing someone who is bad. Really bad players are really hard to read, usually impossible.
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Aceofone
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08-07-2004, 10:50 PM
Post subject: Re: Big tells
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#3 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lineof7s
what are some major tells that you guys have seen in live games, and how much do you let something you think could be a tell affect your decisions?
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For live games against anyone but the best, read Caro's Book of Tells. I did and it has paid for itself several times.
His tells aren't always accurate but with practice you can almost always know if your beat.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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I just finished playing in a live tournament. I was heads up at the end of it, and I did pick up on one tell that the other guy had. Whenever he had a big hand, he'd act very disappointed in the flop or his cards.
At first I wasn't sure if he just wasn't checking himself, but it became pretty clear after a couple times. And in the last time he did this, he confirmed it in my mind by showing his AK with top pair on a flop.
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Spammy12345
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wilbraham Massachusetts
Posts: 24
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I usually tell just by how they bet. i can't explain it, but I can usually tell just by feeling how they bet.
I loose a lot tyring to read a new player, or trying to bluff one. They call way to much, and count on a hand way to much. They may think they have a good hand, but it is actually a bad one in this situation, so if you read this as big, it sucks because you read the player right, but would have won the hand.(actually happends)
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If you don't know who the sucker is in your first 30 minutes at the table, you're the sucker.
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dutchfan
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 77
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I read caro's book, and although it was a good refreshment, i had basically found most of those tells myself anyways. I am not saying i didn't enjoy the book, but i am saying, most people have figured out those tells, and have adjusted their styles to where those aren't as useful.
Like the glancing at chips, i do it all the time, i confuse opponents. I act interested when i really am interested, and sometimes i even stare at the flop, acting like i didnt hit, when i flop top set. If you are a good player, most of those tells cant be taken off of you for something exact everytime, so basically what i am saying is..
Have you found any tells that work on ALL opponents, and are VERY reliable, and hard to be faked?
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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A lot of the poker tells mentioned are tells seen coming from a weak player, I’m pretty sure that a lot of people here have read that book, know what tells are in it, but those are NOT the ONLY tells there are, a poker tell is by definition "a difference in play connecting it to there cards". In other words say I get AA and itch my face, if I do that every time I have a big hand it's a tell. (Yes I know that example is lame). But one that is kind of out there that wasn't in Caro’s book, this one basically replaces (in casinos at least) the smoking tell because a lot of casinos band smoking, gum chewing! I have seen someone chewing gum freely and then look at there hole cards, there chewing slowed and then stopped and they raised the big blind, they went on to show a big hand. I think they stopped chewing because the mind was thinking of ways to play the hand and all physical jobs were stopped so the person could solely concentrate how to get the most out of there hand. Figured, I would share that poker tell with everyone let me know if it's a good percentage reliable.
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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ttanaka
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,184
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There are some generic poker tells, but I really try to hone in on actions specific to the player. It helps to know the player somewhat, I played in a NL home game this weekend, and had a couple of interesting hands against the same player, so I thought I'd share this info on this post.
My opponent was to my left. I'm in middle position. Blinds are $1-2, I think maybe there's one caller before it got to me, I raise the bet to $10 on my JJ. Opponent to my left calls, everyone else folds.
Flop comes Q 7 2 rainbow. I bet $15, my opponent raises me all-in $52.
So, I'm lookin at him, he's quiet, staring at the cards. This, in itself, doesn't mean much. I start asking him questions about why he wants one of us to go broke...no answer...I know that he's been drinking a lot. I asked him if that was his empty beer next to him... he answered that one.
Then I start staring at the pot, counting out my chips, I notice from the corner of my eye that he squirms a tiny bit and takes a slightly deeper breath (not acting).
I call his bet, he flips over 55, I win the pot.
Now, this is where it gets interesting. Same opponent to my left, I'm the big bling, he opens raising the bet to $6. One caller (I think), then it's on me, I have the same hand JJ. I raise the bet to $15. Same opponent goes all-in, raises to around $50. Everyone else folds. It's my decision again, basically same scenario but pre-flop.
But this time, my opponent's acting differently. He's more vocal, more natural and confident (not acting, in my opinion)... I take my time, he doesn't fidget. I show my cards, JJ, and fold. He flips over QQ.
So, in general terms, strong may be weak, weak may be strong, but really you want to notice a change in a particular player's actions. In this case, strong was strong. We took a break after that hand, I went out for a smoke, one of the players was complementing me on that laydown, he asked me how I knew, I responded with "Did you see the difference?" (I meant in my opponents actions). I'm not sure he did, but I did, saved me a lot of money.
Anyway, it was a nice little session for me, $40 buy-in, I bought in once and walked out with about $300.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ttanaka
My opponent was to my left.
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This is Wiese, right?
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dutchfan
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 77
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ttanaka
So, in general terms, strong may be weak, weak may be strong, but really you want to notice a change in a particular player's actions.
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ya, that is what i was trying to say. Most people thing of generic tells, and use only those. Assuming that those will work everytime and for every player. But people who know those tells, will reverse their mannerisms to get you to do what they want you to do.
So i guess there are no extremely reliable tells...just have to find a player, study him, and figure him out.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ttanaka
So, in general terms, strong may be weak, weak may be strong, but really you want to notice a change in a particular player's actions.
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The 1st lesson in Caro's Book of tells, more important than strong = weak and weak = strong, is to decide whether your opponent is acting or not.
Look at what he is showing, and what he is hiding. How showy is he? Is he a very introverted person who starts showing major emotion? Than he is probably acting.
In your first example you said that he shifted in his chair and you saw it out of the corner of your eye. Very important. He was nervous and he only did "nervous things when he thought you were not looking.
In the second hand he acted the same way, but a lot smoother. He wasnt breathing so heavy, he seemed a lot more confident about his hand. and more vocal.
Great job picking up on tells.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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ttanaka
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,184
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Yeah, the acting and not-acting is important. Thanks Hump.
Hey Xianti, it wasn't Wiese.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ttanaka
Hey Xianti, it wasn't Wiese.
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Aaah... so it was my second guess, Ken.
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CRUSHER
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08-16-2004, 11:09 PM
Post subject: Dead Men Tell No Tells
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#14 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK (the land of happy people)
Posts: 32
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I have two good tells to share. One from a beginner and the more subtle one from a more experienced player.
The beginning player in a tournament calls my pre-flop raise. She sees the flop come out with an A, 4, 9 and then squirms in her seat and exhibits a knowing, big, excited smile towards her children that are looking on. She is obvsiously happy about the cards on the table and is oblivious anyone else is watching. I fold my pocket Qs.
The more experienced player in a home game is mixing up their game well. Sometimes aggressive and loose, sometimes tight. Before the river, this player either placed small bets or hesitated to call my one raise. By the time the river comes up, there are many possible hands available and I've got a good one. Without hesitation he bets big, but rather conservative if they landed a monster hand. Several players sitting around hoo and haw about the next proper move I should make (typically to re-raise.) But this player tries to use reverse, reverse pyschology and tries to give me tells of confidence in order to make me think he's bluffing. Everyone else thinks he's bluffing because of his bet and body language. But, here's the tell...his eye contact does not match the swagger of his body language. It's very subtle since his actions are obvious, but while he's trying to come off confident, his eyes typically avoid confrontation. After studying his movements for several minutes, I sense he actually landed the monster hand and was baiting the pot. I fold and two days later he lets it slip while relaying the game to a friend that he landed the full house.
Gotta love tells.
-Crusher
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Xianti
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08-17-2004, 12:59 AM
Post subject: Re: Dead Men Tell No Tells
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#15 (permalink)
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CRUSHER
The more experienced player in a home game is mixing up their game well. Sometimes aggressive and loose, sometimes tight....But this player tries to use reverse, reverse pyschology...
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This must be Natrix you're talking about.
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