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pokerfan
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05-16-2010, 11:07 PM
Post subject: All-in moment
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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1/2 9-handed game.The spewy guy sitting to my left is an obvious poker newbie.He also played here for the first time in his life.I saw him 3 bet with any pairs and suck out on 3 ppl just minutes after sitting down.Now he tripped up with these fluke hands and seemed very intoxicated.Effective stack is $450. 6 limpers, I made $20 in sb, villian 3 bet to $40,all folded,I thought a while and 4 bet to $120,he tanked,seemed uneasy but finally called.
Flop:    I INSTA open shoved!!! What range do you put me on here?Is this good or spewy with my entire 4 bet range vs such a player?
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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I hate an insta- anything because it means you're not thinking about how the flop connects with his range, or how he could perceive your range, or how you can extract the most value. The only time I like a shove here is if you think you can get him to stack off with TT, JJ, Qx here because he will put you on AK thinking you'll slowplay QQ+, because he would probably do that.
As a bluff a smaller bet will work just as well. For value, you can get stacks in by betting smaller. The only time I shove there is against a villain who I don't have a lot of history with but who I'm pretty sure is a decent reg and he might perceive me as spewy.
given the 4b pre I would think this you have KK+ most of the time. In 3b pots 90% of the time I see someone overbet shove oop is when they have a pocket pair under the top card and would be completely lost in playing the hand in any other way.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Standard shove.
Meh about tipping the fact you were basically going to shove any flop. I usually do a silent 5 count or something.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Standard shove.
Meh about tipping the fact you were basically going to shove any flop. I usually do a silent 5 count or something.
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aggree. INSTA move is pretty bad.This guy did call down light with small pairs in previous hands. He muttered "you got nothing!!"and then asked "Can you show me your cards if I fold and pay $25?" I accepted his offer and showed him my TT after he flipped over AK.Is it reasonable for me to get such a deal from this unknown guy?I had the feeling that he was not willing to call my shove and seemed very unhappy about this flop.I would never do this with KK+.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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I don't like the shove. I would bet around half pot - he will probably call the flop and feel committed to call the turn with worse. It doesn't work as a bluff.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
I don't like the shove. I would bet around half pot - he will probably call the flop and feel committed to call the turn with worse. It doesn't work as a bluff.
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I mean I'd definitely shove with my entire range here.I'd not expect such a whale to fold much not to mention that TT is a bit vulnerable.BTW,do you accept his $25 offer? 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I might take the deal if it's not an angle shoot unless I think I can get him to call with worse than TT. Be nice to the fishes. Take their money, but be nice about it.
I like $100 if you're not going to shove the flop. If he shoves over, it's time to read some body language and figure if he's strong or just feels potstuck.
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paratrooper99
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 135
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What if Flop was, AQQ or KQQ? Still insta-shove? Inst-call that has you dominated would be faster. Then praying for the runner runner straight cards or the other two 10s hoping a jack doesnt hit to make him a straight. Asking for his range after an insta-shove is an insta-$$$$ bleeder IMO.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paratrooper99
What if Flop was, AQQ or KQQ? Still insta-shove?
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Yes, because he's going to have soo many weak hands. He's also going to do stupid shit like fold A8o on an AQQ board or KJ on a KQQ board sometimes.
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