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pocketfours
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05-16-2009, 02:03 AM
Post subject: 3 way live hand deep
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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5/10 FR live. I'm about 40/25 crazy loose image. BU is loose and solid, 3bets frequently. BB is weak, plays about 25/10. I know both players tendencies well.
Stacks:
Mine 2100
BUTTTON covers
BB 1100
PREFLOP
UTG+1 limps, UTG+2 limps, I make it 70 with 88 from CO. BUTTON calls, BB calls, others fold.
FLOP: Ac Ks 7d (POT 235)
BB checks, I bet 140. BUTTON calls, BB calls.
TURN: Ac Ks 7d 8d (655)
BB checks, I bet 400. BUTTON calls, BB goes all in for a little over 800.
What's my best action? BUTTON has 1400 behind. If I call and he calls behind he will have 1000 left on the river (pot 3100). BUTTON will only call a shove with 77, but its a very unlikely hand for him to have since he would often 3bet pre and BB would always 3bet AK pre. BB range is exactly 77/A7s/A8s/K7s (AdXd heavily discounted). BUTTON range is wide and he never has me beat.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Seems like a call and jam every river no?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Probably call and shove river after pretending to think about it.
However, if he's a thinking player or if you don't want to fuck around in a big pot, just shove.
Also, don't heavily discount AA/KK.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Seems like a call and jam every river no?
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I call. River is 4d, completing runner flushdraws. No sidepot so I can never bluff. Villain is good. You still like a shove over c/c or c/f?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Probably call and shove river after pretending to think about it.
However, if he's a thinking player or if you don't want to fuck around in a big pot, just shove.
Also, don't heavily discount AA/KK.
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I can almost completely discount AA/KK from BU range. They might be in BB range, but still discounted.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Seems like a call and jam every river no?
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I call. River is 4d, completing runner flushdraws. No sidepot so I can never bluff. Villain is good. You still like a shove over c/c or c/f? |
Yeah I think so. I don't think he shoves much on the river that you beat but on the other hand I don't think he folds anything he called the turn with. You only have a 1/3 psb left if you were deeper we could talk about other options. My thinking is the only flush he can have is the nut flush so its not a large enough part of his range to c/f imo.
I've never played 5/10 live fyi but from the 2/5 that I have played and my perception on how some live guy like villain would play I still shove.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Seems like a call and jam every river no?
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I call. River is 4d, completing runner flushdraws. No sidepot so I can never bluff. Villain is good. You still like a shove over c/c or c/f? |
Uhhh... c/f is sooo sick.
I still jam because worse hands check behind and I'm not folding nor expecting to be bluffed.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Seems like a call and jam every river no?
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I call. River is 4d, completing runner flushdraws. No sidepot so I can never bluff. Villain is good. You still like a shove over c/c or c/f? |
Yeah I think so. I don't think he shoves much on the river that you beat but on the other hand I don't think he folds anything he called the turn with. You only have a 1/3 psb left if you were deeper we could talk about other options. My thinking is the only flush he can have is the nut flush so its not a large enough part of his range to c/f imo.
I've never played 5/10 live fyi but from the 2/5 that I have played and my perception on how some live guy like villain would play I still shove. |
Adxd, Kdxd are still in his range, TdJd, very slightly discounted, and even QdJd, QdTd, slightly discounted. BU will float me IP on this flop with any pair, any gs+rfd.
Villain is online heads up pro who respects my game. Plays up to 2knl.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Villain is online heads up pro who respects my game. Plays up to 2knl.
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Move in on the turn!
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Villain is online heads up pro who respects my game. Plays up to 2knl.
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Move in on the turn! |
Good idea. So can I c/f now?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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To be serious, against good players you should be less inclined to screw around. IMHO, a big part of live poker is getting into it with the loose spot and staying away from the stronger players. If someone is going to play well on later streets, be more inclined to play the earlier streets faster and your big hands more straight forward.
As played I'm shoving because I'm not folding and may as well get action from worse hands.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
To be serious, against good players you should be less inclined to screw around. IMHO, a big part of live poker is getting into it with the loose spot and staying away from the stronger players. If someone is going to play well on later streets, be more inclined to play the earlier streets faster and your big hands more straight forward.
As played I'm shoving because I'm not folding and may as well get action from worse hands.
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This is absolutely right. As a live player, I am constantly evaluating (in my mind) how other players are playing. Who is passive, who is aggressive, who is reckless, etc.
And almost always, when I lose money in a long enough session, most of my money ended up in the hands of good players. Yes, occasionally a bad player lays a bad beat on me-- but if that player sticks around, his or her money seems to make it back into the pot, whereas if you give money to a good player, it often stays in his or her stack.
So you are always trying to isolate against the fish, and avoid big pots against good players unless you either really have a good read or really have a good hand.
That may be as important as any piece of advice to anyone sitting down at a live table-- figure out who you want to be in hands against and who you don't.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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That said, throw in a (re)raise every now and then to keep them honest...
Example:
Good $5/$10 game. I have around $1500.
I limp UTG with  
Folds (DOH!) to BN who makes it $60
Blinds fold.
BN straddles and makes some retarded pre-flop plays, but I think he's a difficult post-flop player who is difficult to play with.
I fold.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
That said, throw in a (re)raise every now and then to keep them honest...
Example:
Good $5/$10 game. I have around $1500.
I limp UTG with
Folds (DOH!) to BN who makes it $60
Blinds fold.
BN straddles and makes some retarded pre-flop plays, but I think he's a difficult post-flop player who is difficult to play with.
I fold. |
Calling is completely retarded. I make it $250, not close.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
That said, throw in a (re)raise every now and then to keep them honest...
Example:
Good $5/$10 game. I have around $1500.
I limp UTG with
Folds (DOH!) to BN who makes it $60
Blinds fold.
BN straddles and makes some retarded pre-flop plays, but I think he's a difficult post-flop player who is difficult to play with.
I fold. |
Calling is completely retarded. I make it $250, not close. |
This is about the size of it, isn't it? You either decide that a steal or non-pair overcards is a good part of the guy's range and re-raise, or you decide it isn't worth finding out and fold, right?
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