|
Fnord
|
04-20-2009, 09:11 AM
Post subject: 2nd nuts, limped pot, how crazy do we get here?
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
I have around $1800.
SB is LAgg. Lots of naked aggression and some stubborn calls for a couple hundred here and there. However, he's not in every pot and is capable of laying down hands. My image is pretty Tight and I haven't really been caught getting out of line.
3 limpers, SB (LAgg) completes, I check with :Td: 
5 to the flop ~$45 in the pot.
  
LAgg checks, I bet $40, total station calls (ANY pair ANY draw, heck maybe even overs), LAgg makes it $140, I think.... call, station calls.
~$460 in the pot 3 to the turn
LAgg checks! I bet $300, station folds, LAgg tanks hard... calls.
~$1060 in the pot, heads-up
LAgg checks, I bet $500...
How'd I do? Comments on the flop appreciated.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
pocketfours
|
|
04-20-2009, 10:24 AM
Post subject: Re: 2nd nuts, limped pot, how crazy do we get here?
|
#2 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
|
|
4th nuts on the river, no? Flop looks fine to me.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
04-20-2009, 10:39 AM
Post subject: Re: 2nd nuts, limped pot, how crazy do we get here?
|
#3 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pocketfours
4th nuts on the river, no? Flop looks fine to me.
|
2nd nut on the flop unless you count JTs with and without a backdoor redraw as different hands.
On the river my hand is pretty much the nuts against the range of hands I can resonably expect to continue, even against this clown. If he's got a better backdoor flush, he gets my stack.
Thinking back on it, WTF is my re-raise range here? WTF is my re-raise range in pretty much any limp pot? 3rd bet = nuts because live players suck too hard to polarize with bluffs?
|
|
|
|
pocketfours
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
|
|
Yeah, just wanted to make sure you posted it correctly. I don't 3bet any hand on the flop.
|
|
|
|
Taicho
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 102
|
|
While I don't think we have to worry about pushing LAgg off his hand on the flop with a 3bet (reads like 2pair or a set), we want station to continue to donate and 3betting may push him out. By just calling, you can hopefully extract more out of them both if the turn is a brick, and I guess there's the side benefit of the pot being smaller if the turn is a 10 or the board pairs.
NH!
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
looks like he flopped the third nuts as he doesn't seem like the type to c/r <set.
Our flop call is interesting, but don't we dislike half of the deck?
the rest is played fine
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
LawDude
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
|
|
I think this was very well played.
It's a fascinating hand because it demonstrates the difference between a concealed made hand and an unconcealed one.
Your straight on the flop is unconcealed. You put out a pot size bet, which one might make with top pair or two pair, and you are raised. If you re-raise at this point, I think anyone is going to put you on the straight. So you just call.
The turn card actually makes your straight even less concealed. There's now four cards to the straight on the board. But what is concealed is the VALUE of your straight. You have a 10-high straight, and a villain may put you on a 9-high straight. Your 2/3 pot-size bet may be interpreted that way, or it may be interpreted as an attempt to buy the pot in case nobody has the straight.
But now the river comes and you make your backdoor flush. At this point, your hand is totally concealed. If anyone else has a straight, even with JT, they are calling you. They may also be calling you with a set or two pair. Your half-the-pot bet tells them nothing about your hand.
This is an almost dream scenario, to have callers on a board where you have a much better hand than the villains are likely to put you on.
|
|
|
|
Taicho
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 102
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LawDude
I think this was very well played.
It's a fascinating hand because it demonstrates the difference between a concealed made hand and an unconcealed one.
Your straight on the flop is unconcealed. You put out a pot size bet, which one might make with top pair or two pair, and you are raised. If you re-raise at this point, I think anyone is going to put you on the straight. So you just call.
The turn card actually makes your straight even less concealed. There's now four cards to the straight on the board. But what is concealed is the VALUE of your straight. You have a 10-high straight, and a villain may put you on a 9-high straight. Your 2/3 pot-size bet may be interpreted that way, or it may be interpreted as an attempt to buy the pot in case nobody has the straight.
But now the river comes and you make your backdoor flush. At this point, your hand is totally concealed. If anyone else has a straight, even with JT, they are calling you. They may also be calling you with a set or two pair. Your half-the-pot bet tells them nothing about your hand.
This is an almost dream scenario, to have callers on a board where you have a much better hand than the villains are likely to put you on.
|
It's an interesting scenario, sure, but it ultimately doesn't really factor here unless the guy has TJ, right?. On the flop is where the concealed hand remained concealed, and after that the guy can either beat a 9-high straight (with TJ) or he can't, in which case it doesn't matter that the flush is also concealed. With the read that was given, I don't see this guy calling the river bet with 2-pair or a set; he either has TJ and is definitely calling, or is throwing away probably any other hand.
Either way, I agree that it was well played.
|
|
|
|
LawDude
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Taicho
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LawDude
I think this was very well played.
It's a fascinating hand because it demonstrates the difference between a concealed made hand and an unconcealed one.
Your straight on the flop is unconcealed. You put out a pot size bet, which one might make with top pair or two pair, and you are raised. If you re-raise at this point, I think anyone is going to put you on the straight. So you just call.
The turn card actually makes your straight even less concealed. There's now four cards to the straight on the board. But what is concealed is the VALUE of your straight. You have a 10-high straight, and a villain may put you on a 9-high straight. Your 2/3 pot-size bet may be interpreted that way, or it may be interpreted as an attempt to buy the pot in case nobody has the straight.
But now the river comes and you make your backdoor flush. At this point, your hand is totally concealed. If anyone else has a straight, even with JT, they are calling you. They may also be calling you with a set or two pair. Your half-the-pot bet tells them nothing about your hand.
This is an almost dream scenario, to have callers on a board where you have a much better hand than the villains are likely to put you on.
|
It's an interesting scenario, sure, but it ultimately doesn't really factor here unless the guy has TJ, right?. On the flop is where the concealed hand remained concealed, and after that the guy can either beat a 9-high straight (with TJ) or he can't, in which case it doesn't matter that the flush is also concealed. With the read that was given, I don't see this guy calling the river bet with 2-pair or a set; he either has TJ and is definitely calling, or is throwing away probably any other hand.
Either way, I agree that it was well played. |
How about T6? Is he throwing that away? 6x?
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
For what it's worth, he folded to my river bet.
|
|
|
|
GahGah604
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
|
|
so he couldn't beat a straight or a flush... interesting, probably had A/9 !!!! lolol
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
Linear Mode
