$1/$3 Top 2 and want to fold

**baudib** · 07-15-2012 10:10 PM

Typical $1/$3 game with a few very loose players, a few nits, no one very good or capable of doing much beyond playing their cards face-up. I haven't played in a while so wondering if all my decisions are good here.

I raise to $12 with J8cc from CO over a limper. BTN, BB call, MP limper calls.

Flop: (pot $49)

Checks to me and I bet $25. BTN folds, BB calls, MP folds.

Turn: ($99)

BB thinks a bit, then fires out $100.

Villain is a really weird guy, probably about 45. Runs a successful business. I used to think he was mentally challenged but apparently it's an act. He likes to Hollywood and pretend he doesn't know what's going on in the hand. When he really has it, he just fires out, and usually big, doesn't slowplay.

FWIW, my image is aggro and extremely bluffy. T9/65 definitely in his range. Don't think he'd mash the pot button with, say, pair + FD (like A7ss).

Anyone think folding could be OK?

**baudib** · 07-15-2012 10:27 PM

Stack sizes: Villain has about $550 to start hand and I have him covered.

**bikes** · 07-15-2012 10:30 PM

personally im jamming here

**baudib** · 07-15-2012 11:47 PM

I stoved it and it's worse than I thought it would be. What else do we include in his range to make this a jam? If we give him 87o it gets us to 31%

Board: Js 7c 4d 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 22.028% 14.34% 07.69% 164 88.00 { Jc8c }
Hand 1: 77.972% 70.28% 07.69% 804 88.00 { J8s, T9s, 87s, 65s, J8o, T9o }

**bikes** · 07-16-2012 12:37 AM

J8, J7, 78, QQ, KK, AA AJ JT mebbe J9 mebbe

T9 56 88 77 44

**aka_red** · 07-16-2012 04:24 AM

This is a pretty easy fold. Unless he's very loose pre flop and plays weird you're only ahead of 78hh, and 78dd. Since based on you're read he's rarely if ever bluffing I think this is a fold as his value range obliterates you. BTW shoving sounds like a horrible idea given that he'd generally doesn't slow play reducing the chances he has J7 one of the other few but unlikely hands we beat. I think the range he's leading with here based off this information is T9s, 56s, 78s, J8s.

**baudib** · 07-16-2012 06:11 PM

sick range of opinions

**griffey24** · 07-16-2012 07:41 PM

I feel like I'm always calling here, esp given his sizing.

Rarely jamming and rarely folding.

If he leads smaller I might be more likely to raise because I think he'd be less polarized. Leading $100 here is mega polarized.

**Fnord** · 07-17-2012 04:06 AM

Why don't you think he can have AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ here?

Also, I think shoving here is owning yourself.

I'm calling and looking at a river bet.

**chardrian** · 07-17-2012 05:32 AM

I'm not good enough to fold two pair. But your only viable options in this hand are to fold or call.

**baudib** · 07-17-2012 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why don't you think he can have AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ here?

Also, I think shoving here is owning yourself.

I'm calling and looking at a river bet.

I think he's more likely to lead or C/R flop and tbh, I don't think I've ever seen him C/R. I feel like someone who could c/c TPGK and lead the turn without improving would be fairly advanced, someone with a read that I'd check back the turn a lot. He's not that guy. He just tends to always bet when he has something decent and bet really big when he has something really big.

**Chusko** · 07-17-2012 09:08 PM

Sounds like you've made up your mind then

**baudib** · 07-18-2012 07:02 AM

So I obviously called. I was wondering if I should have some plan for the river other than "hope he doesn't bet big."

River: ($299)

If he checks do I turn my hand into a bluff? I assume everyone's folding if he bets.....

**bikes** · 07-18-2012 08:02 AM

not jamming unless villain looks super uncomfortable

**Fnord** · 07-18-2012 06:41 PM

I'd either value bet or check behind.

No way I expect the player described to fold a better hand.

**Micro2Macro** · 07-21-2012 07:05 AM

can he make big folds?

we can rep spades on river and no one ever misses a possible flush on river and can still boat up

**baudib** · 07-21-2012 07:35 AM

Not sure on the big folds. I've seen him call off for heaps with a set on 4 to a straight board before. On other hand I've seen him make a pretty weird fold after leading flop/turn on A22xK before when other guy was pretty clearly trying to push him off a chop, where he folded AJ face up and said, "You have Ace-King?"

07-15-2012 10:10 PM #1
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	$1/$3 Top 2 and want to fold Typical $1/$3 game with a few very loose players, a few nits, no one very good or capable of doing much beyond playing their cards face-up. I haven't played in a while so wondering if all my decisions are good here. I raise to $12 with J8cc from CO over a limper. BTN, BB call, MP limper calls. Flop: (pot $49) Checks to me and I bet $25. BTN folds, BB calls, MP folds. Turn: ($99) BB thinks a bit, then fires out $100. Villain is a really weird guy, probably about 45. Runs a successful business. I used to think he was mentally challenged but apparently it's an act. He likes to Hollywood and pretend he doesn't know what's going on in the hand. When he really has it, he just fires out, and usually big, doesn't slowplay. FWIW, my image is aggro and extremely bluffy. T9/65 definitely in his range. Don't think he'd mash the pot button with, say, pair + FD (like A7ss). Anyone think folding could be OK?
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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07-15-2012 10:27 PM #2
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	Stack sizes: Villain has about $550 to start hand and I have him covered.
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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07-15-2012 10:30 PM #3
bikes View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message i roll up Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 6,219 Location house	personally im jamming here

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07-15-2012 11:47 PM #4
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	I stoved it and it's worse than I thought it would be. What else do we include in his range to make this a jam? If we give him 87o it gets us to 31% Board: Js 7c 4d 8s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 22.028% 14.34% 07.69% 164 88.00 { Jc8c } Hand 1: 77.972% 70.28% 07.69% 804 88.00 { J8s, T9s, 87s, 65s, J8o, T9o }
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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07-16-2012 12:37 AM #5
bikes View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message i roll up Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 6,219 Location house	J8, J7, 78, QQ, KK, AA AJ JT mebbe J9 mebbe T9 56 88 77 44

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$1/$3 Top 2 and want to fold

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07-16-2012 04:24 AM #6
aka_red View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Nov 2004 Posts 1,384 Location house	This is a pretty easy fold. Unless he's very loose pre flop and plays weird you're only ahead of 78hh, and 78dd. Since based on you're read he's rarely if ever bluffing I think this is a fold as his value range obliterates you. BTW shoving sounds like a horrible idea given that he'd generally doesn't slow play reducing the chances he has J7 one of the other few but unlikely hands we beat. I think the range he's leading with here based off this information is T9s, 56s, 78s, J8s.
	[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
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07-16-2012 06:11 PM #7
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	sick range of opinions
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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07-16-2012 07:41 PM #8
griffey24 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2006 Posts 4,930 Location Toronto'ish	I feel like I'm always calling here, esp given his sizing. Rarely jamming and rarely folding. If he leads smaller I might be more likely to raise because I think he'd be less polarized. Leading $100 here is mega polarized.
	Originally Posted by Jay-Z I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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07-17-2012 04:06 AM #9
Fnord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2003 Posts 19,380 Location I'll Do You Like A Truck	Why don't you think he can have AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ here? Also, I think shoving here is owning yourself. I'm calling and looking at a river bet.
	Last edited by Fnord; 07-17-2012 at 04:08 AM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
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07-17-2012 05:32 AM #10
chardrian View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message I rarely,if ever, get pms Join Date Apr 2005 Posts 5,332	I'm not good enough to fold two pair. But your only viable options in this hand are to fold or call.
	http://chardrian.blogspot.com come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com
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07-17-2012 08:10 AM #11
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	Originally Posted by Fnord Why don't you think he can have AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ here? Also, I think shoving here is owning yourself. I'm calling and looking at a river bet. I think he's more likely to lead or C/R flop and tbh, I don't think I've ever seen him C/R. I feel like someone who could c/c TPGK and lead the turn without improving would be fairly advanced, someone with a read that I'd check back the turn a lot. He's not that guy. He just tends to always bet when he has something decent and bet really big when he has something really big.
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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07-17-2012 09:08 PM #12
Chusko View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2011 Posts 132	Sounds like you've made up your mind then

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07-18-2012 07:02 AM #13
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	So I obviously called. I was wondering if I should have some plan for the river other than "hope he doesn't bet big." River: ($299) If he checks do I turn my hand into a bluff? I assume everyone's folding if he bets.....
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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07-18-2012 08:02 AM #14
bikes View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message i roll up Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 6,219 Location house	not jamming unless villain looks super uncomfortable

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07-18-2012 06:41 PM #15
Fnord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2003 Posts 19,380 Location I'll Do You Like A Truck	I'd either value bet or check behind. No way I expect the player described to fold a better hand.
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
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07-21-2012 07:05 AM #16
Micro2Macro View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2009 Posts 5,038 Location No structure	can he make big folds? we can rep spades on river and no one ever misses a possible flush on river and can still boat up

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07-21-2012 07:35 AM #17
baudib View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2005 Posts 3,772	Not sure on the big folds. I've seen him call off for heaps with a set on 4 to a straight board before. On other hand I've seen him make a pretty weird fold after leading flop/turn on A22xK before when other guy was pretty clearly trying to push him off a chop, where he folded AJ face up and said, "You have Ace-King?"
	Playing big pots at small stakes.
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