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Genitruc
Old 09-23-2009, 11:51 PM     Post subject: Yawn #1 (permalink)  
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 Maybe this hand doesn t matter that much but it tilted villain hard (he had KK). He s been begging me to play HU, going on about what a huge donkey I am blahblahblah... He knows I m very loose pre in pos :

BossMedia Game #1784981693: Table Table TH 1475 - €3.00/€6.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:07:51 - 2009/09/23
Seat 4: HERO (€636.00)
Seat 5: m0r3m0n3y (€597.00)
Seat 3: PleasurBoy (€2580.04)
HERO posts the big blind of €6.00
PleasurBoy posts the small blind of €3.00
m0r3m0n3y is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO
m0r3m0n3y folds
PleasurBoy raises €18.00
HERO calls €18.00
*** FLOP ***
PleasurBoy bets €27.00
HERO raises €94.50
PleasurBoy calls €94.50
*** TURN ***
PleasurBoy checks
HERO bets €112.50
PleasurBoy raises €337.50
HERO goes all-in with €523.50
PleasurBoy calls €523.50
*** RIVER ***
*** SUMMARY ***

PleasurBoy won (€0.00), mucks
HERO won (€1269.00), showed

I ve bluffraised plenty of flops and been 3 betting and squeezing like a monkey pre. I ve shown down 46o in a 4 bet pot and made big bets on late streets only to fold to shoves and get berated by the entire table.


For the hand, all I m wondering about is the river. I snap-folded and maybe it s not even close but I just thought about this hand during a jog after my session and began wondering wtf his turn range is (he SNAPPED the turn for 130bb s). He s a reg at these stakes and my feeling is he s pretty straightforward, a bit fishy (not a deep thinker).

In the last hand we played he called my turnbet w A3o on K994 board (no FD on board) after I flatted his flop bet w QTo. I didn t bluff the riv. Earlier I CRAI bluffed the riv and he timed down and called me w JJ on K6429 board (I showed Q4s)
Seat 4: HERO (€2621.68)
Seat 5: m0r3m0n3y (€568.00)
Seat 3: PleasurBoy (€2780.17)
lowbridge posts the small blind of €3.00
PleasurBoy posts the big blind of €6.00
Muffiatos is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO
HERO raises €21.00
m0r3m0n3y folds
Muffiatos folds
lowbridge folds
PleasurBoy calls €21.00
*** FLOP ***
PleasurBoy checks
HERO bets €45.00
PleasurBoy raises €132.00
HERO raises €363.75
PleasurBoy calls €363.75
*** TURN ***
PleasurBoy checks
HERO bets €772.50
PleasurBoy calls €772.50
*** RIVER ***
PleasurBoy goes all-in with €1622.92
HERO folds
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Alexos
Old 09-24-2009, 12:10 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 sets, flushdraws on turn?

hes clearly spewy so it wouldn't surprise me at all

so def yawn + snap fold
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griffey24
Old 09-24-2009, 01:44 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Why 3bet the flop this deep, instead of flatting IP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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meeloche
Old 09-24-2009, 04:42 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Why 3bet the flop this deep, instead of flatting IP?
yeah this for me as well.
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Genitruc
Old 09-24-2009, 05:53 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point
 because i m never getting 4 bet except for by the stone cold nuts (and i have blockers) and i want to keep my hand deceptive this deep in pos
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:23 AM #6 (permalink)  
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but he's never c/ring and folding
what does your bet accomplish
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Genitruc
Old 09-24-2009, 07:40 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point
 what s the big deal if he calls?

there are a million bb s behind and i have position. i ll own his almost always.

and i think he s definitely bluff CR here some % of the time as well as CR/folding hands like 88 and 99.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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griffey24
Old 09-24-2009, 12:40 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 After you 3bet flop and he calls OOP, what's your plan on a blank 9-J type card? Are you checking back for a free river?

Guess I'm trying to understand more of the merits for this 3bet, since it's a spot I always flat with stacks and never 3bet. If people are c/r 88-99 here and then folding, that's pretty ridic imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 09-24-2009, 01:55 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 3betting the flop seems terrible.

As played clearly there's no other way line to take and yeah fold.
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griffey24
Old 09-24-2009, 02:13 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
because i m never getting 4 bet except for by the stone cold nuts (and i have blockers) and i want to keep my hand deceptive this deep in pos
Also I don't see why 3betting keeps your hand more deceptive. Your flatting range of his 3bet is waaay wider than your 3betting range, so I feel like flatting keeps your range the widest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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Genitruc
Old 09-24-2009, 03:14 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 3 betting extracts from FD's and doesn t mind getting called by the two lowest sets w about 38% equity.

it s just so different playing 430b s deep in pos and being able to apply lots of pressure. i d never 3 bet this 100 or 150 bb s deep because i wouldn t need to turn my hand into a bluff much. in this spot, i can 3 bet flop, bet turn and shove river with blockers to 57 and what s he gonna do? what s he gonna do with 333 or 444 if i pot turn and shove riv?

i don t have much experience this deep but it just felt right to 3 bet the flop. i ll have to think a little more about why. i just know that feeling i d never get 4-bet was crucial.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:00 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
3 betting extracts from FD's and doesn t mind getting called by the two lowest sets w about 38% equity.
kind of hard to extract value from hands that are a favorite:

Board: 4d 6s 3d

Hand 0: 49.192% { 5h5s }
Hand 1: 50.808% { AdJd }
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Genitruc
Old 09-24-2009, 06:55 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 having the best made hand in position renders absolute equity much less important
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 09-24-2009, 07:18 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
what s the big deal if he calls?

there are a million bb s behind and i have position. i ll own his almost always.

and i think he s definitely bluff CR here some % of the time as well as CR/folding hands like 88 and 99.
How would you play this hand if you thought his range was 66/44/33? Why do you think you should play it any different with bluffs in his range? If he seriously is c/ring things here your losing to that he's planning to fold then lol, just play straight forward and take his money easily.
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Renton
Old 09-25-2009, 11:03 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 I actually kind of like the 3bet. You apply a ton of pressure to some of his legitimate value range, and as you said, he's never 4betting you. If you call, you are going to have to face a lot of gayness on the turn.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 09-26-2009, 03:40 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I actually kind of like the 3bet. You apply a ton of pressure to some of his legitimate value range, and as you said, he's never 4betting you. If you call, you are going to have to face a lot of gayness on the turn.
Your 100% positive he's not going to 4bet us with 66/44/33? That's a pretty hefty assumption to be making.
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Genitruc
Old 09-26-2009, 05:11 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 it s hard to know what goes on in the minds of these weird passive and bad villains but i m pretty sure that he s not 4 betting 33 and 44 for value.

i d just be very very surprised if he 4 bet FD's and 33 for value this deep. i mean this is the kind of guy who times down before getting it in w AK pre when ppl have been spewing...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 09-26-2009, 05:12 PM #18 (permalink)  
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Renton
Old 09-26-2009, 09:50 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
I actually kind of like the 3bet. You apply a ton of pressure to some of his legitimate value range, and as you said, he's never 4betting you. If you call, you are going to have to face a lot of gayness on the turn.
Your 100% positive he's not going to 4bet us with 66/44/33? That's a pretty hefty assumption to be making.
yeah im sure he's 4betting top set and the nut straight plenty. I meant to say "he's very rarely 4betting you".
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 09-26-2009, 09:58 PM #20 (permalink)  
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 Does anyone actually think c/r bluffing the flop any sort of range greater than a fd is actually good here given what villain knows about hero?
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:41 PM #21 (permalink)  
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I believe you said that bluffing really drawy boards with total air is not optimal, and if villain thinks so he has something he's not folding for a 3b on the flop

and I don't understand why he would raise 99 here either considering building pot with a marginal hand is retarded
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Genitruc
Old 09-27-2009, 02:38 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
I believe you said that bluffing really drawy boards with total air is not optimal, and if villain thinks so he has something he's not folding for a 3b on the flop

and I don't understand why he would raise 99 here either considering building pot with a marginal hand is retarded
he s not very good
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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dsmithpokerpro
Old 12-11-2009, 08:26 AM #23 (permalink)  

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looks good to me. i wouldn't play that crap on the first hand though
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