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Numbr2intheWorld
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01-16-2009, 12:07 PM
Post subject: Would you rather...
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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You're in a 5/10 6-max game with 4 regs and a fishy player. Would you rather: Raise 23s UTG or call an UTG raise from the BB with 23s?
The first concept that comes to mind here is the whole Shania thing where someone goes omg i'm expanding my range with 23s yes! But then i was really thinking about what hands are going to get the most value when they hit when you raise UTG, and 23s doesn't seem right. Even if you do hit your "disguised" trips, two pair, or low end straight, it's going to be on a board that you're going to win a lot anyway. I don't care about having trip 3's on a 338 board because i'm taking this down with a double barrel a lot. The boards that hit my hand the villain is usually going to play his range weak/passively.
Conversely, if you are the caller to the UTG raise, most regs already know this advantage and play aggressively on those boards. Calling a 23s here seems pretty advantageous because of basically the opposite of what i just described. I'm not sure that it's profitable... but i'd reconsider it.
So what weak hands should we add to our raising range utg? hands we 7's, 8's, 9's, and T's in them seem good because i estimate boards containing are the ones that are going to be raised and floated the most.
This seems pretty right on to me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Interesting question although since Im' writing this before class all I'm going to add is I agree with the UTG raise assessment, I like adding 89s type hands, I think adding suited hands to your UTG range is very important.
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STHollywood
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 107
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And to add one more point on to this question...would you rather be Max or Danny and why?
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rathorymonster
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7
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Edit: This doesn't add anything to the topic. This is a strategy forum, try to be constructive.
-ISF
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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obv raise utg not close at all
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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St8ofN8
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 60
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Raise. No doubt.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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obv since any raise preflop carries at least 50% fold equity right off the bat, its gonna be better to raise utg than to call anywhere
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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raise utg and it s not remotely close
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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jjbish
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 84
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When I 1st read this I assumed raise UTG was obvious But about what other hands to raise there:
Isn't 89s or similar a standard UTG open at times? I've never played higher that 100nl, and I think shania is often pointless up to there except against regs with a decent amount of history. But maybe when I open 89s or even64s UTG that is my subconcious way of balance, hmmm.
BTW after playing soooooo much PLO for so long I am still getting into a NL mindset. So how I express things may seem odd.
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NH, WP, GG, TY, Etc..........................
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Along those lines.. say you are deep, is it better to call a 3bet utg with that hand or 3bet in the blinds with it? Its the 3bet pots where hands like 23suited's implied odds soar, no?
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