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ItDepends
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07-17-2006, 01:37 AM
Post subject: Whats your play for maximum value?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Title
PokerStars Game #5583282351: Hold'em No Limit ($10/$20) - 2006/07/16 - 21:31:58 (ET)
Table 'Volans' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: StoneCold17 ($1930 in chips)
Seat 2: sparx1 ($2194 in chips)
Seat 3: Roland62 ($2532 in chips)
Seat 4: JohnSmiley1 ($2000 in chips)
Seat 5: bILiaRds ($2437 in chips)
Seat 6: oldman#1 ($1507 in chips)
Seat 7: mMagic_cards ($781 in chips)
Seat 8: lucky karma ($2911 in chips)
Seat 9: samh133 ($1540 in chips)
StoneCold17: posts small blind $10
sparx1: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mMagic_cards [Kh Ac]
Roland62: folds
JohnSmiley1: raises $50 to $70
bILiaRds: folds
oldman#1: folds
mMagic_cards: calls $70
lucky karma: folds
samh133: folds
StoneCold17: folds
sparx1: calls $50
*** FLOP *** [7s Kd 9s]
sparx1: checks
JohnSmiley1: checks
mMagic_cards: bets $160
sparx1: folds
JohnSmiley1: calls $160
*** TURN *** [7s Kd 9s] [9h]
JohnSmiley1: checks
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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content?
I cant handle this.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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- Why are you shortstacked?
- Reraise preflop.
- Reads?
- My standard line would be to check turn and push river to get calls of TT-QQ.
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
- Why are you shortstacked?
- Reraise preflop.
- Reads?
- My standard line would be to check turn and push river to get calls of TT-QQ.
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shortstacking is the new thing.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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shortstacking is the new check-raise
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
- Why are you shortstacked?
- Reraise preflop.
- Reads?
- My standard line would be to check turn and push river to get calls of TT-QQ.
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- I always shortstack now
- I wanted to disguise my hand.
- None or I would have posted them. Sample under 50 hands.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Bet $400.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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push?
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
push?
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is this a question or an answer?
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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both?
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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push
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i think your only two options are push or bet pretty small, like 250. i don't think it really matters. I probably push.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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if you bet 250, it looks a lot like you're really trying to nickle and dime him into playing for effective stacks.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Type OMG I HAVE NOTHING and then push. He will instacall.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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bet, although maybe check/push river too?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greedo017
Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
push?
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is this a question? |
Idk, do you want me to answer it anyway?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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shortstacking a high stakes game doesn't seem like it should actually go in a highstakes forum
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Well, since Gabe is always right, mod plz move.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
shortstacking a high stakes game doesn't seem like it should actually go in a highstakes forum
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What, because the players are worse then anyone else playing 10/20 on stars? Should it go in the High-Stakes Shortstacking forum? Maybe every other post should be put in the Deep-Stacked poker forum?
Gabe, please get off my nuts.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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LOL
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
LOL
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Btw, thanks for all the content you brought into this thread!
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i would challenge you to HU grudge match but you would probably shortstack it, wouldn't be worth my time
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i would challenge you to HU grudge match but you would probably shortstack it, wouldn't be worth my time
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Wouldn't bother anyway.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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ya, dont want to lose your BR
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
ya, dont want to lose your BR
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sigh
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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lets hug this shit out guys
shower's warm
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
ya, dont want to lose your BR
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sigh |
LOL
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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OH SNAP
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LOL OPERATIONS
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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ilikeaces made shortstacking cool again?
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
ilikeaces made shortstacking cool again?
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It's jsut back from the 80s. They got a few articles on it in Vogue and GQ
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LOL OPERATIONS
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siknd
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 359
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
- My standard line would be to check turn and push river to get calls of TT-QQ.
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bingo. leave the turn alone. represent stealing the pot on the river after he has checked three consecutive steets...
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'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by siknd
Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
- My standard line would be to check turn and push river to get calls of TT-QQ.
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bingo. leave the turn alone. represent stealing the pot on the river after he has checked three consecutive steets... |
Sounds like a good idea.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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I figure I'll give my take.
I don't think I'm getting shown TT-QQ ever here. He raises pf and gets 2 callers. Flop comes king high and he checks, 2nd to act bets, 3rd to act folds. He calls. He has to put me on a king with the action in the hand, and I'm way to short to try to float it off me.
I honestly think he is playing KJ KT, or he has 2 spades, which I'm wondering why he didn't continue or c/r me in. I'm afraid that checking the turn will let him catch up with a very possible flushdraw.
Also, checking the turn there he's more likely to think I have a monster and giving him cards to catch up. But, I could be wrong.
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dwags222
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gaylord, MI
Posts: 151
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your shortstack for a reason...so just push the turn.
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andr3w321
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 413
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I don't mean to hate on ItDepends or anything but I have to agree with gabe here. If you're trying to get maximum value out of your good hands you should be sitting with a full stack and if you're shortstacking because you don't think you're good enough to sit with a full buyin then you probably shouldn't be playing these stakes.
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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I guess this is what I get for posting content.
gg me
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andr3w321
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 413
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwags222
your shortstack for a reason...so just push the turn.
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Happy?
Not hating on you just that playing shortstack poker takes all the difficult situations away and almost any hand you play will probably result in you being all in.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
I guess this is what I get for posting content.
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ROFL
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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There's $500 sumtin in the pot and you have $500 sumtin left. The prob/benefit of shortstacking is that it gives you no opportunity to make probe bets and get away from hands. That combined with your read and I think you have to push here.
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chardrian
There's $500 sumtin in the pot and you have $500 sumtin left. The prob/benefit of shortstacking is that it gives you no opportunity to make probe bets and get away from hands. That combined with your read and I think you have to push here.
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Well, I'm not really concerned about being behind, I just want to get all his money into the pot with me.
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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hey shortstack did you play on Bodog a few months back?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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$200 on such a drawy flop, $510 and all-in on turn. No overbet needed if done like this.
To those telling him to buy in full, that is great advice when you have a huge edge in a terrible low-stakes game, but that isn't necessarily the case in a much tougher high-stakes games where some very good players don't correctly make the adjustment of playing against short stacks.
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
$200 on such a drawy flop, $510 and all-in on turn. No overbet needed if done like this.
To those telling him to buy in full, that is great advice when you have a huge edge in a terrible low-stakes game, but that isn't necessarily the case in a much tougher high-stakes games where some very good players don't correctly make the adjustment of playing against short stacks.
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shhhh
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I am not a high-stakes player but I have railed villain for prob at least 300 hours (the sound of him reriasing ai used to put me to sleep... yes I am a bit of a freak...). as far as I know he is one of the winningest players online (Ivey stopped playing him HU complaining that it would take too long to take his money on FTP).
I can add prob 3 relevant pieces of info on villain. Not sure this can help your decision making for a hand that is finished but...
1) He rarely plays strong hands passively.
2) He likes pushing the nuts
3) He plays draws very aggressively (no surprise there)
this being said, he hates shorties. No point for him to play a draw aggressively and he's not getting great implied odds and knows you probably won't fold anything decent.
I think your read is good and he is on a medium king or 1010-QQ more than 80% of time here. He will fold a shitload if you push turn. He might call if he picked up pair plus flushdraw but... Most value is checking turn pushing river since it looks so weird.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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k so i reread my post and realized I basically just described every high-stakes winning player with my "read" on him and just needed to tell everyone I've watched villain play a shitload.
gg me ItDepends you can now undoubtedly pwn Smiley with my precious insights
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED
hey shortstack did you play on Bodog a few months back? |
Yes
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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I fold preflop so i can luckbox my way through the stars million faster, or at the very minimum have one of my stakee's win it
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bmxicle
I fold preflop so i can luckbox my way through the stars million faster, or at the very minimum have one of my stakee's win it
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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I shove and its not even close.
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