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what do ppl usually do here????

  
 
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sauce123
Old 05-21-2008, 07:09 AM     Post subject: what do ppl usually do here???? #1 (permalink)  
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in 122 hands villain is playing 70/30 ish with a 14% 3bet (a lot). I haven't 4bet or called basically cause of stack sizes and me having nohting (until now!). v few hands have gone to showdown all of which have been basically standard, but I should have a tight image cause I've only shown down a str8 (tho i have bluffed a bunch and hes folded).



POKERSTARS GAME #17581377254: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($25/$50) - 2008/05/21 - 01:35:36 (ET)
Table 'Ra-Shalom' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 7: Sauce123 ($9440.80 in chips)
Seat 9: Domanique ($5132.50 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $25
Domanique: posts big blind $50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [6d 7d]
Sauce123: raises $100 to $150
Domanique: raises $450 to $600
Sauce123: calls $450
*** FLOP *** [Js 2d 7h]
Domanique: bets $675
Sauce123: calls $675
*** TURN *** [Js 2d 7h] [2c]
Domanique: checks
Sauce123: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js 2d 7h 2c] [As]
Domanique: bets $3857.50 and is all-in
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 05-21-2008, 08:34 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I think if your not thinking call when he does it you cant call. You need some sort of level or read here to call. I'd go with your gut.
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Irisheyes
Old 05-21-2008, 11:07 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I think that when he has it here he will realise the problem he will have getting value with a normal betsize and he will consider other options like shoving. Contrarily when he is bluffing he will be perfectly happy with a normal betsize and will do that. I think any more levels than that or to expect him to be balancing in this spot is doubtful. Then again I don't play 5k so maybe I'm underestimating.

So fold.
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pocketfours
Old 05-21-2008, 12:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I'm just shy of 1k hands at this level, but here's some random noob thoughts that might or might not have some relevance:

1. Does he usually cbet A high in RR pots...
2. What does his small cbet mean...
3. You have pretty much what he thinks you have.
4. This is a good spot for thin value because your range is weak and the ace allows him to represent a bluff.
5. This hand allows you to make several adjustments against him even if you fold.
6. Villain might do this (for value or as a bluff) just to get you off your A-game.
7. He is in control in this hand. Don't play his game, make him play your game.
8. You should consider protecting your floats by betting the turn with a balanced range.

I personally think this looks more like a level value shove than a bluff. It can certainly be a bluff as well, but there aren't a whole lot of hands in his range that you beat (44, 55, 66, KQ, T9s). Is 14% 3bet really a lot at this level?
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c-luvin
Old 05-21-2008, 03:56 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Alexos
Old 05-23-2008, 06:54 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 this is a spot where he should be shoving anything better than 88, and all his air. If he's good?

I think against a good player/leveller his vbet range is huge here so you have to fold.
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pocketfours
Old 05-23-2008, 07:23 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexos
this is a spot where he should be shoving anything better than 88, and all his air. If he's good?

I think against a good player/leveller his vbet range is huge here so you have to fold.
I'm trying to think about the merits of betting pot vs shoving (as thin value or bluff), but I come up empty. This feels good in isolation, but I think that shoving a very wide range here will be too easily exploitable in the long run.
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