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standard? ugh

  
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-10-2008, 06:02 PM     Post subject: standard? ugh #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain here is Samodai. He seems to 3-bet pretty light and i've been pretty tight to his 3-bets. A few days ago we got involved in a hand where i raised AJs otb, he 3-bet and i called. Flop came KQx, i floated the flop (probably should've raised but w/e), turn came a blank that gave me a FD, and he c/s a 2/3 pot bet with AQ (wtf?????). Also, i had seen him make a pretty bad c/c once on a river to another guy.

I'm not sure how he views me, i think he would assume i'm capable of triple barreling this board with air. I've never seen him slowplay a drawy flop like this. Also he shoved the river pretty fast fwiw.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($953)
Button ($985)
Hero ($1032)
BB ($1000)
UTG ($985)
MP ($1307)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, Q.
4 folds, Hero raises to $30, BB calls $20.

Flop: ($60) 8, 9, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $50, BB calls $50.

Turn: ($160) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $120, BB calls $120.

River: ($400) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $340, BB raises to $800, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $1080
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-10-2008, 06:05 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 His line doesnt make much sense but when thats the case its normally the nuts especially given how wide and strong your range is with this line.
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pocketfours
Old 04-10-2008, 08:07 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I think the river bet is a pretty big mistake vs thinking players at high stakes and here's why:

Magically hitting the river makes you forget that you have already been representing a strong hand by betting two streets. You fail to notice that your opponent's range is very polarized between strong made hands and draws (some of which hit and some of which missed).

A good opponent will also realize that your range is split between fairly strong made hands and air, so raising your bet on this river should always be profitable. Only a very small part of you range can call this bet.

This is not a river where villain would want to bluff lead after you check, which is why I think the correct play here is actually c/f (!). Yes, you hit the top pair (weak kicker), but you already bet two streets of value. Now be very happy if you can check your very mediocre hand down and tilt your opponent because you sucked out.

Cliff notes: river bet too thin.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-10-2008, 08:50 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 P4's i definitely agree that if i were to check here against the player described, the correct move would be to fold to a bet.

In terms of the river being too thin, i agree that doing this makes it very easy for Samodai to raise my river bet and that's something to think about. However, from the reads i had (which i said in op) he seemed to lack a fold button, and the river couldn't have possibly helped his potential calling hands on the turn. I could definitely see him calling off a bet with 9x here, which is exactly what his hand looks like.
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griffey24
Old 04-10-2008, 08:57 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Just read the responses.

I was actually looking at this board and thinking its super draw heavy that I'd rather c/c this river. I suppose c/f is ok too, since JT got there on the turn but spades still missed.

I prefer c/c, but in the moment I feel like I bomb this river like massimo, cause I wanna be called light.

P4's - you're c/f AA/KK here too then?
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pocketfours
Old 04-10-2008, 09:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
P4's i definitely agree that if i were to check here against the player described, the correct move would be to fold to a bet.

In terms of the river being too thin, i agree that doing this makes it very easy for Samodai to raise my river bet and that's something to think about. However, from the reads i had (which i said in op) he seemed to lack a fold button, and the river couldn't have possibly helped his potential calling hands on the turn. I could definitely see him calling off a bet with 9x here, which is exactly what his hand looks like.
I didn't find anything in the op that says he's a station. You mentioned a bad c/c, but that's not really the same thing. I understand what you are trying to do but I don't think it's good. I don't think he has a 9x type of hand here very often and even if he does I don't think he will call with it enough for this to be profitable.

I also think villain turn c/s with AQ MPTK sounds like a very good play. Much better question is why did you bet the turn?
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The Odds God
Old 04-11-2008, 11:00 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Turn card is one of the worst cards to double barrell with air. Also, in bvb situations there are some paired flops where villain will fold to your c bet close to 0%, but this flop is NOT one of those so he probably has something when he calls you (664 flop is one of those for example). He probably doesn't float air on this flop. A big part of his range is JT and slowplayed 98. JT is not a big enough draw to raise flop, but it is big enough to peel flop IP. He might also have a 9 and on the river and realize it is not good and decide to bluff raise you. This would be a sick play by him though. As played, I like a river bet to balance your range and you get called by a 9, but I wouldn't bet the turn. I would fold now.
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sauce123
Old 04-11-2008, 06:59 PM #8 (permalink)  
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yea doubling turn seems pretty bad here
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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sauce123
Old 04-11-2008, 10:03 PM #9 (permalink)  
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once u double turn you should pray his frequencies are bad and check/eval river as well

needless to say river raise is a pretty easy fold as well
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Cocco_Bill
Old 04-21-2008, 07:43 PM #10 (permalink)  
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checking river is much better than betting.
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Renton
Old 04-21-2008, 08:45 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 c/f turn
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