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speaking of big folds..... 2/5 pounds

  
 
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griffey24
Old 05-02-2008, 04:08 AM     Post subject: speaking of big folds..... 2/5 pounds #1 (permalink)  
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 -villain is a pretty solid nitty player who runs 17/14/2.58
-his fold to river bet is 74%
-The last hand we had together in this session, the table was 3-handed and it was bvb. He raised from SB, I 3-bet QQ from BB he 4-bet from SB and I flatted QQ cause we were somewhat deep. Flop was AQx , he bet, I shoved and he called with AA
-I'd imagine after that hand my image is at least solid and that I'm making plays with good hands
-I can't really see many ppl shoving over with the bare Ac on the river here, let alone someone so solid/nitty

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5 pounds
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $702.95
Button: $1415.80
Hero: $531.99
BB: $456

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with
UTG folds, Button raises to $20, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: ($45, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($45, 2 players)
Hero bets $30, Button calls.

River: ($105, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $90, Hero raises to $277, Button raises all-in $1365.8, Hero faced with $204 bet ??
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Fnord
Old 05-02-2008, 04:21 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Yup, the nit has a better hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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pocketfours
Old 05-02-2008, 04:32 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Fold. I prefer to lead river though.
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griffey24
Old 05-02-2008, 04:34 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Fold. I prefer to lead river though.
If you lead river, do you shove over a raise?

Cause I can see the Ac potentially raising a river lead, since I lead the turn as well and its possible I'd have a worse club.
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Alexos
Old 05-02-2008, 04:40 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 who is villain?
Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

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pocketfours
Old 05-02-2008, 04:44 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Fold. I prefer to lead river though.
If you lead river, do you shove over a raise?

Cause I can see the Ac potentially raising a river lead, since I lead the turn as well and its possible I'd have a worse club.
Raising this river with Ac and a tight image is really bad, so I would certainly at least not shove. Folding or calling.
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Fnord
Old 05-02-2008, 04:45 AM #7 (permalink)  
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What range is the nit betting if checked to on this river?
What is he calling your check/raise with?

Sounds like Bet, call a small raise and fold to a shove is the line to beat against a fairly honest player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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The Odds God
Old 05-02-2008, 08:42 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I like a c/r river here against a nit. Nits will just call with Ac if you bet, but they will b/c a c/r a lot and they will bet almost their entire calling range if you check river. Now you probably have to curse and fold.
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djbruxism
Old 05-02-2008, 12:13 PM #9 (permalink)  

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hang on, hang on... I'm a microlimits player so I have no idea, but i'm interested to know how anyone could ever lay this one down. What's the thought process that goes into putting this guy on only JJ?, or even less likely, pocket 7's.
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griffey24
Old 05-02-2008, 01:49 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexos
who is villain?
Villain is mymaximus

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbruxism
hang on, hang on... I'm a microlimits player so I have no idea, but i'm interested to know how anyone could ever lay this one down. What's the thought process that goes into putting this guy on only JJ?, or even less likely, pocket 7's.
I think the bigger part of this hand is that there are four clubs on the board. That changes this hand a lot. Obviously with only 3 clubs on this board, this is an insta stack off on the river cause he can be doing this with all flushes.

With four clubs on board, once I c/r him, he knows if he has the Ac or not. If he has the Ac he knows I don't have it so I don't have the nut flush so I likely have a boat or a bluff to c/r here so he doesn't have that much value in shoving over with the Ac.

So on this board the next best hand after the Ac is a full house, and we have the worst full house possible on this board. So if we're folding the Ac on this river to a shove, we should also pretty much fold 22 cause 22 essentially = Ac to this action.

As an aside: at microlimits, from what I recall, people WILL be shoving the Ac in this spot, so you kinda have to call with a boat here always.
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griffey24
Old 05-02-2008, 01:53 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
What range is the nit betting if checked to on this river?
What is he calling your check/raise with?

I'd imagine he'd probably bet the Ac or Kc here, and maybe even worse cause weird things happen on four suit boards.

As for flatting the c/r.. hmm not sure. For sure Ac he'd at least flat and maybe Kc? It's hard to say really. I definitely have a very spewy image in general, but today I haven't been spewy at all.
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Alexos
Old 05-02-2008, 03:33 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 I'm pretty sure some of the regs are bad enough to 4-bet shove the nut flush here.

That said, I much prefer 38 on turn, and bet/call a smallish river raise.

edit: He's not that nitty hes more like 26/17 in my PT... but yeah i don't think hes bad enough to shove Ac there so fold.
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