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Cocco_Bill
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04-03-2007, 09:25 PM
Post subject: smallball with deuces
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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I bet half pot on both the flop and the river which I will do quite often on this type of bords. Merits of half pot vs 2/3 or pot bet on this board? Discuss..
** Game ID 1302742484 starting - 2007-04-03 20:55:01
** Bit By Bit [Hold 'em] (5.00|10.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
- kalleankpank sitting in seat 1 with $776.74
- ADavid sitting in seat 3 with $564.51
- emiwarg sitting in seat 4 with $1024.50
- Cocco_Bill sitting in seat 5 with $1178.00
- cotton_seed sitting in seat 6 with $985.00 [Dealer]
kalleankpank posted the small blind - $5.00
ADavid posted the big blind - $10.00
** Dealing card to Cocco_Bill:  , 
emiwarg folded
Cocco_Bill raised - $35.00
cotton_seed folded
kalleankpank folded
ADavid called - $35.00
** Dealing the flop: :Ts:,  , :Tc:
ADavid checked
Cocco_Bill bet - $37.50
ADavid called - $37.50
** Dealing the turn: 
ADavid checked
Cocco_Bill checked
** Dealing the river: 
ADavid checked
Cocco_Bill bet - $75.00
End of game 1302742484
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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In my experience this line always gets called. I've no idea why, it just does. Betting the turn is better maybe?
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
In my experience this line always gets called. I've no idea why, it just does. Betting the turn is better maybe?
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The river bet is to fold 22, 33 55-88 Kx Qx. Thats a pretty big part of his range.
EDIT: no way I am getting 55-88 to fold here...I think I need some sleep!
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Yeah I know. I'm just saying that all that stuff calls way more then you'd like.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I agree with Irish but i think this works out enough to warrant it.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i either bet more on the flop and fire a second barrel, or I check the flop and try to show down.
I like having a good hand when i take your line, cos it always gets called.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i either bet more on the flop and fire a second barrel, or I check the flop and try to show down.
I like having a good hand when i take your line, cos it always gets called.
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The main reason i like to halfpot bet on a flop like this is that it allows me to 3-bet bluff cheaply.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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yeah but why would you 3bet this flop ever?
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
yeah but why would you 3bet this flop ever?
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because aggressive opponents will often raise me with hands like 55-88 and air and wont be able to call my 3-bet. I will balance this by playing my real hands likewise.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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aiming for 3betting balance on this board just seems like a way to needlessly put yourself in shitty spots, is this really necessary even at 5/10?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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thats how i valuebet 98
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Love the discussion of the flop bet. Half pot on dry boards can be a really annoying line to deal with because you know you can't fold a wide range to it.
Turn check is interesting since your hand is all but bust at that point anyway and you have better implied threat. What range would you bet there?
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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No.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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How often does the villian call with 77 if we bet the turn? I think this is one of those spots where villian is either folding or raising, with a lot more folding.
I don't likr the way you guys are thinking about flop bets. I think there is a far bigger psychalogical element involved which has precidence over a lot of other factors.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
aiming for 3betting balance on this board just seems like a way to needlessly put yourself in shitty spots, is this really necessary even at 5/10?
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Necessary? I don't know, I make this same play a lot at 2/4 and I think its +EV.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
The main reason i like to halfpot bet on a flop like this is that it allows me to 3-bet bluff cheaply.
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Ok this may not be very relevant. But i'll say it anyway. If he's a 2p2 guy he probably knows the Yeti Theorem and is a lot more likely to call your flop 3-bet.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i either bet more on the flop and fire a second barrel, or I check the flop and try to show down.
I like having a good hand when i take your line, cos it always gets called.
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The main reason i like to halfpot bet on a flop like this is that it allows me to 3-bet bluff cheaply. |
Just noticed this now, calling a raise on this flop and betting any turn when checked to is a better re-bluff line.
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YeaURBad
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18
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First off if you want to steal fire the turn. Your hand might still have show down value so just check behind on river. You should either fire 2 barrels on flop and turn to fold out a smaller pp that beat yours or fire flop and check river.
Also your bet sizing is a joke.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by YeaURBad
First off if you want to steal fire the turn. Your hand might still have show down value so just check behind on river. You should either fire 2 barrels on flop and turn to fold out a smaller pp that beat yours or fire flop and check river.
Also your bet sizing is a joke.
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How does my hand have showdown value when I am playing the board?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by YeaURBad
First off if you want to steal fire the turn. Your hand might still have show down value so just check behind on river. You should either fire 2 barrels on flop and turn to fold out a smaller pp that beat yours or fire flop and check river.
Also your bet sizing is a joke.
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l.o.l. documents
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YeaURBad
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18
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wow I misread hand I apologize.
On river I dont see him folding any pp from 55-99 and he might even call with any ace.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by YeaURBad
wow I misread hand I apologize.
On river I dont see him folding any pp from 55-99 and he might even call with any ace.
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Yeah the river bet is not folding any real hands, probably -EV vs his range. Talking about the flop bet, how do you react with different holdings to that bet OOP. PP 22 33 and 55-88, low suited connectors, overcards, a ten? How big part of your range do you like calling with here? Many people will either fold here or play back at you with a large part of their range when facing this bet and when they do play back at you they are often not strong enough to call a 3-bet OOP.
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