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simple spot which flummoxes me

  
 
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sauce123
Old 02-21-2008, 06:08 PM     Post subject: simple spot which flummoxes me #1 (permalink)  
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Villain in actual hand is punketty, though i dont think it matters all that much, this basically applies to any solid TAG regular whos range includes all the sets and combo draws to be expected as well as flop pure bluffs as he knows i fire the btn with a high frequency there, assume no betsizing tells.






PokerStars Game #15445414172: Hold'em No Limit ($10/$20) - 2008/02/21 - 13:10:34 (ET)
Table 'Ananke IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: punketty ($3680 in chips)
Seat 2: Sir_DonaldRM ($630 in chips)
Seat 3: Bullitos ($3514 in chips)
Seat 4: junior0071 ($2540 in chips)
Seat 5: Sauce123 ($2589 in chips)
Seat 6: Leatherass9 ($2393 in chips)
Leatherass9: posts small blind $10
punketty: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [8h 8s]
Sir_DonaldRM: folds
Bullitos: raises $40 to $60
junior0071: folds
Sauce123: calls $60
Leatherass9: folds
punketty: calls $40
*** FLOP *** [7s 6c 2c]
punketty: checks
Bullitos: checks
Sauce123: bets $160
punketty: raises $290 to $450
Bullitos: folds
Sauce123: calls $290
*** TURN *** [7s 6c 2c] [Th]
punketty: bets $890
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 02-21-2008, 06:34 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I said this already to you but I think its just a flip a coin spot, the decision is so marginal. The range analysis is somewhat interesting though. I think the fact that you have 6 outs versus a set and possible meta game of a call makes this a call.
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jyms
Old 02-21-2008, 06:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 So many draws that fit his BB calling range that allow him to fire here. You have outs against some of the bigger holdings and may still even be ahead. I think you can see the river.

Does Sauce call this flop C/R often?
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-21-2008, 09:28 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 i <3 punketty how could you say that!
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2008, 12:41 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 I think with he had T9 or T8 or was bluffing with some other random hand with a T... it'd be awkward for him to bet this turn because he doesn't want to bet/call. So if he doesn't have 76 or 62 (he runs like 40/26 right?), a set, or 89 you're gonna be good. Given that his range definitely has quite a few semi bluffs and utter air bluffs you gotta go with it here. With my analysis this would be a call then right?
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gabe
Old 02-22-2008, 01:12 AM #6 (permalink)  
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seems like whenever he has a draw he c/rs really big
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Genitruc
Old 02-22-2008, 03:12 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I love Samo and I wouldn't know what to do here

I think I'd usually look to get it in on the flop? Is that gross?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-22-2008, 03:13 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 cuz if we get to showdown it ll discourage him from CR bluffing in later hands cuz he knows we ll shove light

so then you can start folding to his checkraises?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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sauce123
Old 02-22-2008, 06:48 PM #9 (permalink)  
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gen- if we get it in against a range of bluffs semibluffs and sets, we wanna do it on the turn.

if we get it in against a range of sets and 76, we dont wanna get it in at all
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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The Odds God
Old 02-22-2008, 07:03 PM #10 (permalink)  
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This is a sick spot. I never know what to do here. Against more passive players, I might find a fold on the flop, but usually not. Against maniacs, I might reraise and get it in. I only watched Samo in CTS video, but against him (looked like TAG, but capable of making crazy stuff), I would call and probably get it in on turn. The question is whether to raise or just call the turn. If you just call, you have problems on the river if an overcard falls, but if you raise turn, you never get it in good. But you have outs. Sick spot.
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sauce123
Old 02-22-2008, 07:15 PM #11 (permalink)  
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can someone explain why we would ever ever call the turn?
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-22-2008, 07:47 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
can someone explain why we would ever ever call the turn?
cuz he ll never bluff the river?

and sauce, the question about shoving the flop was more about creating a dynamic in later hands/sessions where he plays more predictably

i think what makes this spot so tough is that, since Samo is a chronic over-defender, can't he be CR a huuuuuuuge range on this flop? and isn't he a good enough player to turn lots of his weak made hands that he CR into monster-bluffs on the turn/river?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2008, 07:49 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
can someone explain why we would ever ever call the turn?
At first i wrote shove turn but i just seems to deep. Is he really calling a shove here with a FD or 85?
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 02-22-2008, 09:30 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 Am I blind, don't we have like 2k left in our stack facing a 900 bet? Ofc we shove.
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The Odds God
Old 02-22-2008, 11:29 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Yeah, sure you can't just call. I would shove then.
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