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Semi interesting spot in rr pot + semi sarcastic fml hand

  
 
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Ravageur
Old 10-21-2009, 10:10 PM     Post subject: Semi interesting spot in rr pot + semi sarcastic fml hand #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is the epitomy of a tag. He's not set-camping here very often and he's folding almost all Kx hands except maybe kqs and he's 4-betting ak+. I feel like his calling range here is something like 77+ with a bunch of mid suited connectors and maybe some AJs stuff as well. What's important is that I just recently floated him in a RR pot and also 4-bet shoved preflop and he had to fold so i am pretty confident he is going to float or do something. What line do you guys like to take here? B/fold is standard but I feel like I have the best hand here a lot. How good/bad is my line?

Boss Media (IPN) No-Limit Hold'em, €5.00 BB (5 handed) - BossMedia Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) (€544.75)
SB (€495)
MP (€571.20)
Button (€221.24)
UTG (€718.11)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
1 fold, MP bets €15, 2 folds, Hero raises to €50, MP calls €50

Flop: (€102.50) 9, 3, K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets €70, Hero raises to €191.25, MP raises to €490, [color=#666666]Hero CALLS???




Villain seems pretty straightforward pre and post. I've yet to see him do anything out of line. I imagine his stats are pretty tight as well. This is probably a waste of time posting this (lol one hand beats me) but I feel like all worse flushes are just calling because my line should be scary no and we are deep? Has anyone in the history of poker considered folding here because I tanked pretty hard.

Boss Media (IPN) No-Limit Hold'em, €6.00 BB (5 handed) - BossMedia Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) (€1212)
Button (€597)
SB (€513.93)
BB (€1244.40)
MP (€829.49)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4, A
Hero bets €21, 3 folds, BB calls €21

Flop: (€45) 4, 9, J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets €33.75, BB calls €33.75

Turn: (€112.50) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets €84.37, BB calls €84.37

River: (€281.24) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets €281.24, BB raises to €1005.28 (All-In),
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griffey24
Old 10-21-2009, 11:01 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 hand 1
-whattt lol I would b/eval and likely b/f. I don't like this, and I don't think you can really call this off

hand 2
-I don't like your river sizing, you wanna bet a size that at least allows him to c/r bluff or c/r for value
-I'd prob just make it like 230ish
-as played, he prob has like KQhh or Jxhh or something, thinking you have a set or something.
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Pelion
Old 10-21-2009, 11:11 PM #3 (permalink)  
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In hand 2 surely hes going to think any flush is the nuts here given your action. Couldnt you have a set/straight here a lot?
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Ravageur
Old 10-21-2009, 11:50 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
hand 1
-whattt lol I would b/eval and likely b/f. I don't like this, and I don't think you can really call this off

hand 2
-I don't like your river sizing, you wanna bet a size that at least allows him to c/r bluff or c/r for value
-I'd prob just make it like 230ish
-as played, he prob has like KQhh or Jxhh or something, thinking you have a set or something.
hand 1: I really think draws are a big percentage of his range here along with maybe 99 and then some random stuff like j10-qj maybe a small % of time.

hand 2: Yeah i don't like my bet sizing either but i was just like 'i has nuts so i bets big' and then hated it when he shoved because i don't think my bet is bluff inducing at all. I think the only hands he's shoving the river with are kqhh and 78hh.
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pocketfours
Old 10-22-2009, 08:10 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: I think c/r+call shove is a pretty cool play. If you made the c/r without a plan to call a shove then it's not so hot.

Hand 2: I'm happy to see a shove here what is this?
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Ravageur
Old 10-22-2009, 01:35 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 1: I think c/r+call shove is a pretty cool play. If you made the c/r without a plan to call a shove then it's not so hot.

Hand 2: I'm happy to see a shove here what is this?

Yeah the idea in hand 1 is to call his shove when i c/r.

Hand 2 is kind of a joke as title indicates but in reality 200 bbs deep vs a tight player that isn't bluffing here I think he's calling with q high flush and is only raising king high and straight flush. I am definitely suffering from 'monsters under the bed' symdrome and seriously tanked hard because i was so damn sure he had 78hh.
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griffey24
Old 10-22-2009, 02:51 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1
- you're getting 2.59:1, so you need 27%

Yah a call is close once you c/r, prob a marginal fold

Board: Kd 9s 3d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.798% 25.57% 00.23% 3797 34.00 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 74.202% 73.97% 00.23% 10985 34.00 { 99, AdJd, AdTd, KJs+, QdJd, QdTd, JdTd, 9c8c, 9d8d }
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pocketfours
Old 10-22-2009, 04:12 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravageur
i was so damn sure he had 78hh.
Tight player c/c flop with a bad gutshot and a rfd? Does he even call pre? Cmon it's all possible but you've got to be super happy to see this shove.
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Toadstool
Old 10-22-2009, 05:50 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 In hand 2, with your pot bet on the river, I assume you've really polarized your range in villains eyes, thereby turning pretty much all villains hands in bluffcatchers. I imagine with villain being tight he may flat with Kxhh, considering it a bluffcatcher?

On one end of an extreme scale, that would make his only value hand 78hh. So his shoving range would be 78hh and air, and how often does he have air here considering only xxdd and Q10 missed, and he would probably call with the rest as they will all be bluffcatchers?

Im not advocating folding here, i'm just wondering whether that thinking could apply to a really tight player to make it a fold.
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Ravageur
Old 10-22-2009, 05:55 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool
In hand 2, with your pot bet on the river, I assume you've really polarized your range in villains eyes, thereby turning pretty much all villains hands in bluffcatchers. I imagine with villain being tight he may flat with Kxhh, considering it a bluffcatcher?

On one end of an extreme scale, that would make his only value hand 78hh. So his shoving range would be 78hh and air, and how often does he have air here considering only xxdd and Q10 missed, and he would probably call with the rest as they will all be bluffcatchers?

Im not advocating folding here, i'm just wondering whether that thinking could apply to a really tight player to make it a fold.

Yes this summarizes my thinking (and you explained it way better than I did).

Pocket 4s, i think 200 bb deep calling 78s here pf and on the flop is pretty standard with backdoor draws...i know i would play 78hh just like this should i have it though i would probably lead relatively small on river instead of c/r because i'm checking back a lot of stuff generally.
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Genitruc
Old 10-22-2009, 07:45 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 I like hand 1. villain is putting Hero on a draw TONNE and we have like 30% equity (maybe a little more? vs a hand like TT.

hand 2, 200bb s deep vs a tight villain, is a lot closer than most ppl are saying.

esp facing a check-overbet shove
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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pocketfours
Old 10-23-2009, 04:45 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravageur
Pocket 4s, i think 200 bb deep calling 78s here pf and on the flop is pretty standard with backdoor draws...
Not standard for "the epitomy of a tag" imo.
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Genitruc
Old 10-23-2009, 05:41 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 epitome of a tag was hand 1 imo
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Ravageur
Old 10-24-2009, 01:10 AM #14 (permalink)  
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yeah i get p4s point though....78hh isn't a huge part of a straightforward player's range until he makes that river c/shove which is screaming 'nuts' plz let me cooler you tyty.
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nutsinho
Old 10-31-2009, 11:35 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 hand 2 wtf is this about. bad turn bet bad river bet and u tanked vs the shove?? that is the biggest nitroll ive ever seen, 78hh is hardly even in his range after going call/call on flop/turn instead of folding flop or c/r flop or c/r turn
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Ravageur
Old 11-01-2009, 12:22 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
hand 2 wtf is this about. bad turn bet bad river bet and u tanked vs the shove?? that is the biggest nitroll ive ever seen, 78hh is hardly even in his range after going call/call on flop/turn instead of folding flop or c/r flop or c/r turn

k guess i was fos re: ppl floating flop with 78hh (guess noone c/calls flop and turn). Regardless, what is villain's range after he c/raises river given that this is never a bluff because of my bad river bet?
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Genitruc
Old 11-01-2009, 01:25 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 haha nitroll
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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nutsinho
Old 11-01-2009, 07:41 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravageur
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
hand 2 wtf is this about. bad turn bet bad river bet and u tanked vs the shove?? that is the biggest nitroll ive ever seen, 78hh is hardly even in his range after going call/call on flop/turn instead of folding flop or c/r flop or c/r turn

k guess i was fos re: ppl floating flop with 78hh (guess noone c/calls flop and turn). Regardless, what is villain's range after he c/raises river given that this is never a bluff because of my bad river bet?
a flush
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-02-2009, 09:16 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 Yeah hand 2 is lol call

Hand 1 I think raise/call is really bad. I'd just flat the flop.
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