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Rivered trips 200bb deep and he bet/3bets!

  
 
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Alexos
Old 07-08-2008, 07:34 AM     Post subject: Rivered trips 200bb deep and he bet/3bets! #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain's name is appropriate, LAGGish and able to put moves preflop. We've been quite active this session, and we've exchanged a few buyins recently. My hand looks exactly like what it is, right? If I expect him to know that, im not sure if that makes it more of a call or a fold. I don't think he took more than 2-3 seconds to shove.

$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Ole2804 ($807.75)
UTG+1 Hero ($1968.50)
CO jonlundy ($1000.00)
BTN DarkChaos ($1102.00)
SB JackP ($834.00)
BB loosegoos ($2079.00)

Pre-flop: ($15, 6 players) Hero is UTG+1
1 fold, Hero raises to $30, 3 folds, loosegoos calls $20

Flop: ($65, 2 players)
loosegoos checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($65, 2 players)
loosegoos bets $44, Hero calls $44

River: ($153, 2 players)
loosegoos bets $110, Hero raises to $350, loosegoos raises to $2005, $1544.5 to Hero ($1544.5)?
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pocketfours
Old 07-08-2008, 01:19 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 His line makes perfect sense with all the hands that beat you. The fact that his turn and river bets are smallish makes me a bit suspicious though.

I think the river raise is a slight mistake since he is representing a missed flop c/r and his range is very strong, albeit polarized. I think you should usually only raise here (against a LAGGish player) if you are either intending to call a shove or have a very easy fold if he shoves. Against an ABC player this is a very easy raise/fold ofc.

I have personally never been too succesful in calling river 3-bets with bluffcatchers so I can't call this myself, but then again I wouldn't raise either.

Take a look at the hand I posted in the HU forum yesterday. It has some of the same dynamics as here (river 3-bet).
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zook
Old 07-08-2008, 02:30 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Agree with zangief, you can't call and there's very little value in raising this river.
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sauce123
Old 07-09-2008, 03:31 PM #4 (permalink)  
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man its tempting to call and u probably should be if ur raising river.. so u shouldnt raise river not close

also, u should bet the flop almost certainly
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Alexos
Old 07-09-2008, 08:04 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
man its tempting to call and u probably should be if ur raising river.. so u shouldnt raise river not close

also, u should bet the flop almost certainly
You like betting this flop b/c checking basically turns our hand face up? Doesn't that open us up to a lot of check raises, and how would we proceed?

fwiw villain showed 88 in this hand. I usually raise QT here on river b/c I expect people to call with Kx and stuff and they also arent good enough to turn 88 into a bluff this deep.
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bigred
Old 07-09-2008, 08:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 So you called or he showed after you folded?
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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Alexos
Old 07-09-2008, 08:13 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 i folded and he showed
Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

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zook
Old 07-09-2008, 08:15 PM #8 (permalink)  
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pwned!

sry dude, sick play by opp
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griffey24
Old 07-10-2008, 12:47 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
pwned!

sry dude, sick play by opp
It's definitely a sick play. He must have a pretty big read on you that you're capable of big folds or something.. cause he KNOWS he's trying to get you off at worst trip Q's when he bombs.

I feel gross when I bluff bomb tryin to get ppl off weak aces even!
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sauce123
Old 07-10-2008, 12:49 AM #10 (permalink)  
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reasons to check a flop as the PFR with a med strength made hand

1) balance times we check behind/give up
2) induce a bluff
3) avoid a c/r
4) keep pot smaller (basically 3)
5) misrepresent our hand (basically 2)

I dont think any of these applies enough to make it better than bet/folding
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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wufwugy
Old 07-10-2008, 01:12 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
reasons to check a flop as the PFR with a med strength made hand

1) balance times we check behind/give up
2) induce a bluff
3) avoid a c/r
4) keep pot smaller (basically 3)
5) misrepresent our hand (basically 2)

I dont think any of these applies enough to make it better than bet/folding
all these reasons you give are great, and i dont see any decent reason not to. we're not in a good spot if we want to continue to a c/r, and we're not getting much value from worse. i dont see how this isn't the perfect spot for checking.

unless we're cbetting 100% we need to check behind with hands that can take heat. what better hand than the type that doesnt play well vs a raise and doesnt get much value from worse yet still has value? do you like cbetting 100% why is b/f so good?
 
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bigred
Old 07-10-2008, 03:08 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
reasons to check a flop as the PFR with a med strength made hand

1) balance times we check behind/give up
2) induce a bluff
3) avoid a c/r
4) keep pot smaller (basically 3)
5) misrepresent our hand (basically 2)

I dont think any of these applies enough to make it better than bet/folding
When would be a good time for this? TPTK with monotone boards against an aggressive Op with position?
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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sauce123
Old 07-10-2008, 03:44 AM #13 (permalink)  
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well it depends on alex's range for opening and his opponent's range for defending:: if both r reasonably tight (as i am in EP) then i think its probably better just to bet/fold a hand like QT against most players

generally spots where im often checking back are btn/CO opens to BB/SB defends or HU btn opens where my opponent's range is stronger than mine on almost all flop textures
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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