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PO$$E$$ED
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02-07-2006, 04:56 AM
Post subject: Maximizing value on a flopped broadway
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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So you're holding 10-J off in MP at a 5/10 full-ring table and you limp, along with 2 other people. Flop comes Q-K-A rainbow. BB checks, guy on your right bets $50 into a $45 pot, action's on you. What's your play, and why? (There's a guy yet to act on your left. Table is loose.)
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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Also what's your plan for the turn and river, given that the board doesn't pair?
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Ok, I'll bite.
1st option: Fold. He's got TJ also, and I don't wanna split a pot! J/K
2nd option: Call. While I think this would work at lower limits for building the pot on later streets, I think this might say that I'm really strong, and I want you to bet into me. But it is also an un-raised pot up to this point, so maybe hollywooding for a while before a "nervous" call might entice a raise from Mr. Position or a check-raise from the guy in the BB.
3rd option: Min-Raise to $100. I would venture that this would be seen as a strength move, and might take the pot down right there, value lost.
4th option: Raise to $130-150. This raise says to others, I have a relatively weak A, and I want to take the pot down here. You "Don't" want a call, which is what you hope they think, so they'll pay you off.
5th option: Push. Stupid, you might as well be playing with your cards face up. You'd be called at $25NL though...
So, my final answer, Regis, is 4, a strongish raise to $140.
Turn, if opp(s) check, I'll bet $200 repping the weak A again. If Opp bets less than $100, then re-raise again, otherwise call to show weakness.
River, keep the aggression level up, strong raises, hoping to get as much of Opps money in the middle.
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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just keep betting. slowplaying stuff is so transparent against good players.
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siknd
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 359
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
just keep betting. slowplaying stuff is so transparent against good players.
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not only transparent, but you have to be afraid of scare cards. im always afraid that when i hold a monster the turn will scare off opponents, ie pair the board, flushing etc. not that im worried ill be beaten, but that the turn will help them get away from their hand.
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'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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You're only going to win a big pot if someone has two pair or a set, so, even if these hands are somewhat unlikely, you should raise and give players with these hands the opportunity to put the maximum amount of money into the pot. The way I sometimes see it is, slow-playing against weakness is almost pointless, while slow-playing against strength is costly.
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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I raised to $140. Guy behind me folds, the guy who bet $50 folds.
Standard?
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siknd
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 359
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i think so. either they have something or they dont. theres only so much blood to take from KJ and 88.
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'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I am looking for a reason to call this bet and raise the turn.
However, I cannot come up with a single interpretation of a flat call of this bet, except 2 pair or better. Unless if the original bettor is superaggressive, then a flat call might mean "only" TP. JJ? TT?
On the other hand... if you flat call and a villain DOES have 2pair+ ... don't they bet again on turn? Or at least call a bet?
If only 2p+ is calling a raise, then you might as well push - someone might think you are bluffing, and 2p probably calls anyway.
Just theorizing, I have no experience at 5/10 to back this up, let alone RING in general.
If 1 opp holds 2 pair, and the second has 1 (and gs??), there are only 6 scare cards in the deck - and only 4 that boat 2 pair. AA/KK/QQ seem unlikley in an unraised pot.
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED
I raised to $140. Guy behind me folds, the guy who bet $50 folds.
Standard?
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I would say standard, but maybe that's because you bet exactly what I worked out above... Do I get a cookie??
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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A set/2 pair is highly unlikely (I assume AA/KK/QQ/AK/AQ are pf raises), so you're ahead by more than 1 card. So call and hope for someone to pick up trips/2p/flushdraw at the turn.
(Low stakes reasoning of course, you should probably just raise and hope for someone to bluff, call with the gutshot draw or to have KQ)
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Seabass
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: trying not to die
Posts: 205
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I'll raise aswell, you have 1 more player to act and any AKQ(JT) is going to make you very tired.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
just keep betting. slowplaying stuff is so transparent against good players.
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not to mention you only iwn lame small pots when slowplaying.
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