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Making big folds

  
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-30-2008, 05:47 PM     Post subject: Making big folds #1 (permalink)  
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 Question.

At low stakes good players often advise those who post to make big folds on occasion. The opponents they play, at least the regs, have very small bluffing ranges, and big folds can often be the best move.

However, when you move up to mid and high stakes, most players you play have enough of a bluffing range in nearly every spot and can thin vbet somewhat decently that making "big" folds is laughable in certain spots. Any big fold posted (mostly without enough reads) is given a snap call response or a wtf are you doing response, and rightfully so.

The issue is it gives off an impression that no one is making any big folds. That is ostensibly not true. Just as people have too high of a bluffing frequency in certain spots that allow us to make big calls, they also have too low of a bluffing frequency in certain spots that allows us to laydown a big hand. BUT no one can really ever discuss a big fold or big calls very well, because they are read dependent. Sending someone some sort of a hand where you make a big fold will almost always get an "lol" unless you post specific reads that would guide the analyzer to come to the same conclusion, which makes sharing big folds an almost pointless endeavor.

As stated earlier, this makes it seem like no one ever makes big folds...

SO, do you ever make big folds? Or is it once in a blue moon?
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pocketfours
Old 05-01-2008, 08:48 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I used to be a real folding station before I started to open up my game, but I still think I can find that fold button more often than most. My biggest fold so far was a nut flush on a non paired fourflushed board where only a straight flush that needed both hole cards could beat me (folded to river reraise shove).

Playing 100BB deep it's not very common to see big folds though. Folding AA is about as big as they come. Limped multiway pots are good candidates for big folds of course. Folding the second nut flush on a fourflushed boards is a big fold sometimes, but obviously pretty standard.

I still think that opportunities to make big folds don't come around often enough to have a huge impact on results, as they are usually very marginal situations anyway.

My all time favorite big fold is this one by Toadstool:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ot-t60645.html
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griffey24
Old 05-01-2008, 04:38 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 P4's - I definitely think you make a lot of folds! But that's not necessarily a bad thing, just your style.

As for me, I rarely make big folds. I make a lot less folds than I should be making, and is my biggest leak. I also feel like when I do make folds, I peel too many flop raises with the intention of folding to turn barrels.
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Toadstool
Old 05-01-2008, 08:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
P4's - I definitely think you make a lot of folds! But that's not necessarily a bad thing, just your style.

As for me, I rarely make big folds. I make a lot less folds than I should be making, and is my biggest leak. I also feel like when I do make folds, I peel too many flop raises with the intention of folding to turn barrels.
The last two sentances are so true, that along with "calling to re-evaulate on the turn/river" are such leaks of most players. honestly when people, especially at high stakes raise you on the flop they are almost always firing the turn so if you call with a made hand on the flop then folding the turn - why call the flop?

here's an example of making a big fold, whether the fold was correct or not - I shouldn' have called the flop when I know he's going to fire the turn 90% of the time anyway, if I was going to fold the turn I should have saved myself $125 and folded the flop.

GAME #958032485: Texas Hold'em NL $5.00/$10.00 2008-04-29 00:55:10
Table Arambol
Seat 1: Diego950 ($310.00 in chips)
Seat 3: aFrutAtEd ($295.00 in chips)
Seat 5: felllan ($1,032.00 in chips) DEALER
Seat 6: mattehell ($432.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Villain ($1,478.00 in chips)
Seat 10: Hero ($1,028.00 in chips)
mattehell: Post SB $5.00
Villain: Post BB $10.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ac Ad]
Hero: Raise $35.00
Diego950: Fold
aFrutAtEd: Fold
felllan: Fold
mattehell: Fold
Villain: Call $25.00
*** FLOP *** [6d Qd 5c]
Villain: Check
Hero: Bet $50.00
Villain: Raise $175.00
Hero: Call $125.00
*** TURN *** [Ks]
Villain: Bet $325.00
Hero: Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $747.00 Rake $3.00
Villain: wins $747.00

As for making big laydowns, people don't make enough of them IMO, in the games I play I am constantly getting paid off lightly and I see what they have and think "how can they make that call?" although this statement is very general and reads make ALL the difference
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The Odds God
Old 05-02-2008, 01:05 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I had problems with folding my hand until recently when I just figured when the fold button is. Now, if I think I am beat, I just fold.

Why noone is talking about big folds? Because noone on forums wants to be known as bluffable and if you check any thread on 2+2 some douchebags will tell you how "folding in this spot is very exploitable". Everyone likes to brag about big calldowns, but if you make a big fold, everyone think you are a nit instead of a smart guy who folds when he knows he's beat.

It is a bit ridicolous sometimes.
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griffey24
Old 05-02-2008, 02:06 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 I agree with Odds God in terms of people not talking about making big folds, because of exploitability.

I've recently tried to start banging in my head the concept that: "They don't know what hand you're folding, therefore, your fold is not exploitable"

Really, making big folds probably gives the illusion that you're barreling and bluffing with air a lot more than it makes it seem like you're making big folds.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 05-04-2008, 12:06 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I think the reason people think that you shouldn't make big folds is really just a misinterpretation of what good players are talking about. If someone goes, villain is 22/18, should i fold a set? I'm going to answer, "don't make big folds." If someone has a vivid description of a player, or even a specific hand in the past that gives pertinent information. Or even just a little history that gives some sort of a feel for the player, And it makes sense to make a big fold. For god's sake make the big fold.

Although i wouldn't say this happens "once in a blue moon" for me, it doesn't happen that often.
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sauce123
Old 05-04-2008, 02:19 AM #8 (permalink)  
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