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Love it or hate it? 3/6 FR

  
 
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spino1i
Old 06-19-2006, 04:03 AM     Post subject: Love it or hate it? 3/6 FR #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is 13.6/2.7/5.2 over 966 hands

I figured he would be more aggressive with a smaller pocket pair, trying to protect his hand. So I became very wary of his minbets (even though initially my plan was to check-raise him)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($591.95)
UTG+1 ($591)
UTG+2 ($516.45)
Hero ($720.14)
MP2 ($557.48)
MP3 ($738.15)
CO ($119.40)
Button ($582)
SB ($594)
BB ($507.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, A. SB posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $6, Hero raises to $24, 1 fold, MP3 calls $24, 4 folds, UTG+2 folds.

Flop: ($63) K, 2, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $6, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($75) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $15, Hero calls $15.

River: ($105) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $65, Hero calls $65.

Final Pot: $235

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad As (one pair, aces).
MP3 has 6h 6c (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: MP3 wins $235.
BR now: $106900
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theDEEPdish
Old 06-19-2006, 04:07 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I think itr looks like he has a flush draw so i think you should c/r the turn then check/call the river to induce a bluff

EDIT: thats what it would obviously be at my stakes
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ilikeaces86
Old 06-19-2006, 04:08 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 pot flop pot turn
 
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spino1i
Old 06-19-2006, 04:35 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
pot flop pot turn
why not check-raise an aggressive opponent? Get him too put in more money than he wants to on the flop?

I feel like this "pot flop pot turn" strategy is very one dimensonial, espically out of position, and will basically give away my holdings.
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spino1i
Old 06-19-2006, 04:38 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
I think itr looks like he has a flush draw so i think you should c/r the turn then check/call the river to induce a bluff

EDIT: thats what it would obviously be at my stakes
Why would an aggressive competant player minbet a flush draw on two different streets? He wouldnt get any folding equity and he certainly would be risking a free card as well. If the villain had a flush draw here, he would have either bet a lot or nothing at all.
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Miffed22001
Old 06-19-2006, 01:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
I think itr looks like he has a flush draw so i think you should c/r the turn then check/call the river to induce a bluff

EDIT: thats what it would obviously be at my stakes
Why would an aggressive competant player minbet a flush draw on two different streets? He wouldnt get any folding equity and he certainly would be risking a free card as well. If the villain had a flush draw here, he would have either bet a lot or nothing at all.
his bets look like value against overs or that they want to be raised. That surely makes it look a little odd?
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ilikeaces86
Old 06-19-2006, 06:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I really dont see why you dont make it 50 on the flop. It just makes the hand so much easier to play and alllows your opponent to make big mistakes.
 
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 06-19-2006, 07:09 PM #8 (permalink)  
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this betting pattern by villain suggest, to me, that he has a KQ or KJ type of hand. If i'm slowplaying him, I have to raise by the turn. The way this was played by hero suggests that the hero has a KQ type of hand and wants to check/call down...That doesn't seem like the right way to play aces there - If our opponent hit a set on us, don't we want to push the flop bet when he leads out? Not push all in, but reraise there to $40 at least -
The guy with 66 seems to be slowplaying and getting value calls out of you - I would play it that way if I had the KQ type of hand, but not with overpair - This hand seems like it was played tight/passive - Plus the opponents #'s suggest he's pretty tight also, so I would want to raise the flop to see what he's got -
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Renton
Old 06-19-2006, 07:15 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 I think you have to bet this flop against this player. You can't go for a checkraise because he's probably not aggressive enough with his stats to bet when checked to more than 50% or so of the time.

As played I would have raise the flop. Its not a very transparent play to check raise his silly little bet, because if you are an aggressive player you are doing this with a wide range, including air. He may have woke up right then and 3bet you so you could release your hand.

However, the calldown seem to work wonderfully for you in this case.
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siknd
Old 06-21-2006, 04:49 PM #10 (permalink)  
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i dont mind playing unimproved aces passively OOP. a lot of times you can only make as much as your opponent is willing to give you. if you push too hard he only calls if you are beat. consider the case where his 66 does NOT set the flop. so you check, he minbets, you ckraise, he folds. *shrug (youre better off leaving him with the lead). you give up some value in spots where he has a big king, but you dont go broke when he out-flops you. its best to hide your strength OOP until you have all the information you need.
'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
 
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 06-21-2006, 05:20 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siknd
i dont mind playing unimproved aces passively OOP. a lot of times you can only make as much as your opponent is willing to give you. if you push too hard he only calls if you are beat. consider the case where his 66 does NOT set the flop. so you check, he minbets, you ckraise, he folds. *shrug (youre better off leaving him with the lead). you give up some value in spots where he has a big king, but you dont go broke when he out-flops you. its best to hide your strength OOP until you have all the information you need.
but if the only thing we are afraid of is a set, they will only hit that 1/8 times on avg...so we are going to passively play AA 8/8 times when we are a huge favorite? Just in order to get little value out of the times when we're ahead or lose "less" when we're behind?

I think this is where I really differ whne I play NL - With a AA or KK or AK, unless i flop a monster, I don't get cute with them - I have found out too many times getting cute just gets me into trouble - The only time I make a lot of money with AA or KK is by someone who doesn't believe me (like they go all in with QQ or JJ) ...I would just rather raise preflop and bet the flop strong - Take my small to medium size pot and move on - I have lost my stack too many times thinking i'm invincible cause i have the black aces (or whatever)...I don't do that anymore - Maybe that is scared poker, but when it comes down to it an unimproved AA or KK is just 1 pair - 1 pair hands don't make a bunch of money in my NL games...
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siknd
Old 06-21-2006, 09:34 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
...I would just rather raise preflop and bet the flop strong - Take my small to medium size pot and move on
im not disagreeing with you (yet). but in that 1/8 scenario where the In Position opp has setted, this can be a recipe for disaster. he probably just calls your flop pot bet and you have no information. if you then lead the turn can you believe a raise? if you check the turn and he bets out can you be sure that he isnt just thinking that his KQ is good, or playing off your weakness?

i think that keeping the pot small when you have just an overpair is a good idea. check-calling (headsup) is probably the way to maximize your value here. show weakness and give the lead to top pair and lesser hands. let them think they are valuebetting into you. this is not necessarily my default play, but it is something that should be in your 'toolbox'.

i disagree with the concept of 'taking the pot down right now' on many levels.
'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
 
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 06-21-2006, 10:50 PM #13 (permalink)  
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in the case mentioned, I would probably fold to a turn raise - Opponent seems tight enough that he's not playing KQ. Even if he has AK does he cold call the $24 raise preflop, or re-raise? The cold call does suggest he's set hunting. BUT, the smalling betting could also mean he's got QQ, JJ and is trying to find out if you were overplaying a weaker hand - I think in either case we have to raise the flop bet. $6 screams weakness or monster, I think - SO, since he's a tight player by his stats I would raise his flop bet to $15...At that point if he calls or raises us, I might very well be looking to check fold - Looser players you have to pay off more, I think - but the stats do suggest he's tight....either way, I raise that flop bet...The only time I don't would be when i'm against the KJ guy who thinks he's got a monster and wait to pop him on the turn....

So it's more player dependent - If he raises the mini flop bet, he might have saved himself the turn and river calls...
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