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a little different AK line

  
 
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Pingviini
Old 08-03-2006, 12:14 PM     Post subject: a little different AK line #1 (permalink)  
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I wanted to post this weird hand in order to celebrate my 1000th post in this magnificent forum. I hope that after this speech I will get many magnificent answers Dont be shy boys and girls..

Villain is an average player at these stakes but he has started to play a little weird recently. A couple of hands a go I made it 32 with KK, he minraised, I 3-bet to ~172, he called. Flop came 8 high, I bet ~240 to 350 pot and he folded pretty quickly.

x is at seat 1 with 419.70
y is at seat 2 with 420.40
z is at seat 3 with 508.11
PingZen is at seat 4 with 1860.10
Villain is at seat 5 with 998.69

x posts the large blind 8.00
y posts the small blind 4.00

PingZen: Kd, Ad

Pre-flop:

PingZen: Raise 32.00
Villain: Raise 56.00 (minraise)
x: Fold
y: Fold
z : Fold
PingZen: Raise 184.00
Villain: Call 184.00

Flop (Board: 9c, As, 2d):

PingZen: Check
Villain: Check

Turn (Board: 9c, As, 2d, 7d):

PingZen: Bet 240.00
Villain: Call 240.00

River (Board: 9c, As, 2d, 7d, 4h):

PingZen: All in
Villain: All in

Thoughts?
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alias2211
Old 08-03-2006, 01:43 PM #2 (permalink)  
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i suppose he could check a set on that flop, but after your turn raise and the diamond draw wouldn't a minraisor minraise again there with a hand that beats you? i like it.
In answer to your question... it depends...
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ripjohngotti
Old 08-03-2006, 02:39 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Why do u check the flop?
30%


Still looking for my royal flush.
 
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LeFou
Old 08-03-2006, 03:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Why do u check the flop?
as per the thread title, i think it's a pure mixup play.

i feel like you're way ahead.
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Irisheyes
Old 08-03-2006, 04:37 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I like it too. If you check the river would KK bet?

And your speech made me cry.
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Robert
Old 08-03-2006, 04:43 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Why would you want to bet this flop (other than because you want to mix it up)? I like your flop check and the rest of the hand.
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Bmxicle
Old 08-03-2006, 11:27 PM #7 (permalink)  
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you got what you hoped for now go allin. Its good to check the flop there occasionally when you miss and occasionally when you hit.
 
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 08-04-2006, 03:09 AM #8 (permalink)  
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what site has $800NL?
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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Cocco_Bill
Old 08-04-2006, 03:17 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I like it.
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Irisheyes
Old 08-04-2006, 04:25 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
what site has $800NL?
Prima
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johnny_fish
Old 08-05-2006, 02:24 AM #11 (permalink)  
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What's the purpose of the river bet?
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ripjohngotti
Old 08-05-2006, 04:35 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Why would you want to bet this flop (other than because you want to mix it up)? I like your flop check and the rest of the hand.
So this guy doesnt get any free cards. IE a Set. This guy hit a set? Or did you crack his aq.
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Pingviini
Old 08-05-2006, 02:01 PM #13 (permalink)  
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"So this guy doesnt get any free cards. IE a Set. This guy hit a set? Or did you crack his aq."

AK doesnt crach AQ, it normally happens other way around. Giving free cards to pocket pairs or even 3 outers isnt a problem. I clearly wanted to mix it up and to make it look I have TT-KK.

"What's the purpose of the river bet?"

Its a value bet, it means that I want to make him call with a worse hand, part of being deceptive. His calling range would be about AQ(AJ)-KK(QQ).

"If you check the river would KK bet?"

would the purpose of KK's bet be for value or for bluff? either way too thin, KK checks behind 95%+ of the time at these stakes.
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Robert
Old 08-05-2006, 05:11 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripjohngotti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Why would you want to bet this flop (other than because you want to mix it up)? I like your flop check and the rest of the hand.
So this guy doesnt get any free cards. IE a Set. This guy hit a set? Or did you crack his aq.
On this flop opp will at best not have any more outs than I do (5 outs maximum for improving to two pair). The value I loose by giving a free card (fx by giving a PP a chance to hit his two-outer on the turn) is such smaller than the value I gain by checking this flop.

Note that you shouldnt always check this - sometimes you have to bet this in order to mix it up - if you only check flops you hit and c-bet flops you miss in these spots you get very predictable.
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SmackinYaUp
Old 08-05-2006, 05:49 PM #15 (permalink)  
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I like the line a lot. Reminds me of some weird things I do that at first may look strange at the showdown but then end up being pretty good. Your line is very strange, looks bluffy, and gets called by a wider range because of that.

Also, he's probably not calling a flop c-bet with anything less than AK so you're getting maximum value while losing the least against sets. Getting it allin on the river does not contradict my last sentence because I feel his hand range changed to not include sets based how it went down on the turn.

On the other hand, if your opponent does not widen his calling range on the river, you may even be able to fold out AK once in a great while.

If he does have a set then I apologize for trying too hard to sound smart, but I still like your play.
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He who sleeps well cannot sin.
He who does not sin goes to Heaven.
 
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johnny_fish
Old 08-05-2006, 07:02 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Is it really possible to get away vs. a set here? (preflop action)

I don't think so. So the line Hero takes should optimize vs. hands you beat. I'm not sure he'll ever get a call of KK/QQ/AQ at the river, but who knows. They probably won't bet anyway, so whatever.
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