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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-06-2008, 08:20 PM     Post subject: Line thoughts #1 (permalink)  
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 Opp Poly_Baller is a very good player who has balanced ranges is most spots and is very good at calling bluffs and exploiting unbalanced ranges. Plays like 29/20.

PokerStars Game #21812011617: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/11/06 16:02:33 ET
Table 'Pele IV' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Poly_Baller ($2625 in chips)
Seat 2: cwmack ($1433.50 in chips)
Seat 3: ahhShark ($1111 in chips)
Seat 4: heybude ($1327 in chips)
Seat 5: new_casanova ($274.50 in chips)
Seat 6: IAmSnow ($1102 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $5
new_casanova: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [2c 2s]
IAmSnow: folds
Poly_Baller: raises $25 to $35
cwmack: calls $35
ahhShark: folds
heybude: calls $30
new_casanova: calls $25
*** FLOP *** [Td 3d 2h]
heybude: checks
new_casanova: checks
Poly_Baller: bets $110
cwmack: folds
heybude: calls $110 (I mean really dont have to worry about any draws but fd's and we may see a squeeze sometime, and casanova is a short stack who if he calls he's shoving. I really dont know what to think of this flop call though, im not liking it too much).
new_casanova: folds
*** TURN *** [Td 3d 2h] [9s]
heybude: checks (doing anything but checking seems ridiculous)
Poly_Baller: checks
*** RIVER *** [Td 3d 2h 9s] [Jc]
heybude: checks (I feel like I can still rep AT/QT and missed fd's)
Poly_Baller: bets $100 (odd bet size but makes perfect sense range wise, his range is super strong and mine is massively weak)
heybude: raises $360 to $460

Okay what do you think?


Now for the weird part:
Poly_Baller: shoves all in for like $800 more

I really can't imagine him doing this with anything worse so the question is, is he rebluffing? And the conclusion is that even if he is it definetely isn't enough of the time to want to call. His hand looks exactly like JJ/KQ anyways, JJ more so.
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MuddyWicket
Old 11-06-2008, 08:43 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I cant believe the standard of hands in the beginners section these days. You messed this up raise flop.
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griffey24
Old 11-06-2008, 08:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I like your line. I feel like I take this line pretty often, but probably moreso on a raindbow board. I definitely agree that once you check turn, you should c/r river.

I think I c/r thish flop a fair amount of the time, not so much because we're worried about him maybe having a FD, but moreso cause c/r here is mostly only repping a FD for our range so I think villain will continue with a pretty wide range.

The river is so sick. We can't hardly ever have the nuts here, unless it was a FD with KdQd or maybe some 7d8d. I don't think he ever has 78 here or not that often, as I"d expect him to double barrel this a fair amount given that turn card.

He's only repping KQ I guess. I feel like this depends a lot on your previous history and what he expects you to do here. Does he expect you to call or fold two pair here?
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MuddyWicket
Old 11-06-2008, 08:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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:P couldnt resist it made me giggle.

his river line stinks for you 820 pot after you raise and hes riased 360+800 giving 1980 pot with 800 to call?

I give in it makes my drunken head hurt. ps i never fold but i aint that good to fold an overpair let alone set. thing that gets me is that he probably (in my head) bet more first off (>100) if he was actually bluffing.
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griffey24
Old 11-06-2008, 09:09 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Now that I look at the hand some more. This is such a horrible board to bet into so many players that I kind of feel like he has JJJ here as a more likely value hand that KQ of some sort.
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Alexos
Old 11-06-2008, 09:21 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 I think you raised river too big, so you can't call his shove unless you guys are lvl'ing each other vv hard

If you woulda made it 300 on river then he shoves, and you know he's a sik player who knows you can never have a straight here id be more tempted to call. But with this big a raise I doubt he thinks you're folding

Also I'd c/r flop way more often than I flat, just makes it easy to get it in by river and balances ranges pretty well on the board imo? As played turn and riv checks seems optimal.
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nutsinho
Old 11-07-2008, 12:25 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexos
I think you raised river too big, so you can't call his shove unless you guys are lvl'ing each other vv hard

If you woulda made it 300 on river then he shoves, and you know he's a sik player who knows you can never have a straight here id be more tempted to call. But with this big a raise I doubt he thinks you're folding

Also I'd c/r flop way more often than I flat, just makes it easy to get it in by river and balances ranges pretty well on the board imo? As played turn and riv checks seems optimal.
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bigspenda73
Old 11-07-2008, 01:20 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 Out of my league here but what does he check on the turn that he cbet on the flop that has you beat here? Like I really don't expect him to cbet KQ into the field unless it's specifically KQdd.

However, he knows that, so he's probably not bluffing.
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pocketfours
Old 11-07-2008, 08:52 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 How can we fold our whole range here against this player? You are at the very peak of your range, now call dammit!
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griffey24
Old 11-07-2008, 01:21 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
How can we fold our whole range here against this player? You are at the very peak of your range, now call dammit!
ugh.. he sooo doesn't expect us to fold.

Will villain EVER do this with JT here on the river?

I still think this is JJ a ton, and since you can't have a straight he knows JJJ is the nuts. This line also makes sense for JJ on every street. hmmm would be a sick river fold though.
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pocketfours
Old 11-07-2008, 02:34 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 He doesn't have JJ.
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griffey24
Old 11-07-2008, 02:45 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
He doesn't have JJ.

He has JJ more than he has KQ I'd imagine.

What does he have then!?

Suppose he did have JJ, he should be shipping the river over the c/r right?
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pocketfours
Old 11-07-2008, 03:41 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 He has 45s or two diamonds.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 11-07-2008, 11:51 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 dude... lead flop? And don't say its see-through cause if it actually is you suck.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-08-2008, 12:39 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
dude... lead flop? And don't say its see-through cause if it actually is you suck.
Yeah now that i think about it leading the flop essentially accomplishes the same thing i was trying to accomplish.
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Miffed22001
Old 11-09-2008, 06:07 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
He doesn't have JJ.

He has JJ more than he has KQ I'd imagine.

What does he have then!?

Suppose he did have JJ, he should be shipping the river over the c/r right?
Is KQdd not a double barrel on this board? As is any hand that made a straight on the river that had a fd on the flop (87s etc)
Only hand that makes sense is KQo (but he shouldnt c-bet the frop anyway into like 4 players) or 999/TTT
Iowa, would you c/r the river with a busted draw trying to get villain off a pair (would make sense if his odd river bet size was to encourage a c/r bluff)
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gabe
Old 11-09-2008, 07:00 PM #17 (permalink)  
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i also like a smaller c/r and i would definitely call his shove
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-09-2008, 07:18 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
i also like a smaller c/r and i would definitely call his shove
Timing make any difference? It was definetely pretty quick, but im sure when he bet 100 he had a plan against a c/r
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sauce123
Old 11-16-2008, 07:38 PM #19 (permalink)  
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id fold and i think ur line is fine.

i havent played with poly in a long time tho

it just seems really weird that he takes bet/check/b/3b as a bluff in this spot- specially when ur repping 2pr/made hand into bluff/set in that order of likelihood, meaning you almost always have at least bluffcatcher. also, with ur image he should know u know enough that u cant fold 2pair 100% of the time here.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-19-2008, 03:44 AM #20 (permalink)  
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 nvm
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pocketfours
Old 11-20-2008, 04:59 PM #21 (permalink)  
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 So you folded?
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-21-2008, 12:51 AM #22 (permalink)  
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 Yeah i folded
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pocketfours
Old 11-21-2008, 11:08 AM #23 (permalink)  
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 Sigh. Very interesting hand though.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 11-21-2008, 01:04 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Yeah i folded
coulda been 5 material, isf...

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covano
Old 12-06-2008, 09:14 AM #25 (permalink)  

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raise flop is better
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soccerkeeper
Old 12-11-2008, 07:57 PM #26 (permalink)  

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you should definitly push for maximum value on the river the chances that he was playing with cards that can beat you are very unlucky highly doubt he called down with hoping of runner runner stright
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