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Irisheyes
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11-14-2008, 01:12 AM
Post subject: I might as well coinflip for the decisions on all streets...
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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31/27/9 over 300 hands. We haven't tangled hardly at all. He cbets 88% over that small sample and reraises 12%. Seems like a reg that I just haven't played with much because he's on a bunch of tables.
$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Hero ($1213.25)
CO giannako ($549.63)
BTN MINOS100 ($1208.75)
SB RabidDawg ($1271.00)
Pre-flop: ($15, 5 players) Hero is UTG  
1 fold, Hero raises to $28.75, 1 fold, RabidDawg raises to $99, 1 fold, Hero calls $70.25
I'm going to assume everyone calls here. I don't think it's as clear-cut as most people might think though.
Flop:    ($208, 2 players)
RabidDawg bets $125, $125 to Hero ($1114.25)?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I guess my problem with the flop is that I dont know if I should be assuming that he will see this flop as one that is inherently bad to cbet, and hence I should fold now, or if I should call because of all the semibluffs in his cbetting range and because he could be cbetting because he knows that I think he wont do it very often.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Preflop can go any of 3 ways and I don't mind any of them. Post flop is a crap spot. He has a ton of semi-bluffs in his range and you have some weak backdoor draws. Peel one and see if hes going to double barrel, note it and take it as information. He could also check it down after the flop and we have showdown value. I would fold to a double barrel almost always.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Oh geez. I think making a small raise and calling a shove is a move that is going to be safe and probably only be slightly +EV. Your best move is probably to call flop and call down certain turns and rivers (probably a good amount of them).
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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This is the problem with flatting mid pp's, you hit about a good a flop as you possibly can (without a 7) and you're still thinking about folding to a cbet. I think you should call and re-evaluate and probably call most turns. It sucks you don't have history b/c it helps so much in these situations.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Oh geez. I think making a small raise and calling a shove is a move that is going to be safe and probably only be slightly +EV. Your best move is probably to call flop and call down certain turns and rivers (probably a good amount of them).
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OK good, this was pretty much exactly what I thought.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Hero ($1213.25)
CO giannako ($549.63)
BTN MINOS100 ($1208.75)
SB RabidDawg ($1271.00)
Pre-flop: ($15, 5 players) Hero is UTG
1 fold, Hero raises to $28.75, 1 fold, RabidDawg raises to $99, 1 fold, Hero calls $70.25
Flop: ($208, 2 players)
RabidDawg bets $125, Hero calls $125
Turn:  ($458, 2 players)
RabidDawg bets $255, $255 to Hero ($989.25)?
If you say call, please say some rivers you're calling a shove on or some you're not.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I guess fold. Idk its fish but i feel like the turn hits your range well enough to fold.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I know preflop is close, but if we fold this it starts to get very profitable to 3bet us oop. I think we can call pre and only play sets and hope overcards will occasionally check it down.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I know preflop is close, but if we fold this it starts to get very profitable to 3bet us oop. I think we can call pre and only play sets and hope overcards will occasionally check it down.
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I was thinking similar to this too. We're deepish, opening UTG and he's 3betting us from OOP, so Id expect him to have a pretty strong range here. I don't entirely hate playing this type of hand only for set value, though its suuuper tempting to peel one off on the flop..
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I know preflop is close, but if we fold this it starts to get very profitable to 3bet us oop. I think we can call pre and only play sets and hope overcards will occasionally check it down.
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I have to disagree, I outlined two decisions on this specific flop which I believe are +EV. While I agree with the content of your point, I'm wondering what you think of my thoughts?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I know preflop is close, but if we fold this it starts to get very profitable to 3bet us oop. I think we can call pre and only play sets and hope overcards will occasionally check it down.
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I was thinking similar to this too. We're deepish, opening UTG and he's 3betting us from OOP, so Id expect him to have a pretty strong range here. I don't entirely hate playing this type of hand only for set value, though its suuuper tempting to peel one off on the flop.. |
We're 4 handed
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Well this is as perfect a board as we're gonna get, if we wanna go with it. I call turn, especially since we'll definitely stack him on a 4 river.
This is a hard hand to comment on, cause I feel like most of my decisions in this type of spot come down to his timing in the hand.
If the river is a heart, I might look him up if he jams quickly. Blank river, probably depends on sizing.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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OK well thanks for the comments so far. I decided to call the turn because I figured he still fires a huge range there and I estimated I had enough equity. I was pretty much going to call any river except a total blank, but then....
River:  ($968, 2 players)
RabidDawg goes all-in $792, $734.25 to Hero ($734.25)?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I think I fold. As much as the A polarizes his range, I also think a strong Ax hand is the type of hand he'd be barreling often on this board.
Is he the type that would go for value with an Ax hand here, despite the crappy board, or would he be the type to just check it down once he hit?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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 fold
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I know preflop is close, but if we fold this it starts to get very profitable to 3bet us oop. I think we can call pre and only play sets and hope overcards will occasionally check it down.
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I have to disagree, I outlined two decisions on this specific flop which I believe are +EV. While I agree with the content of your point, I'm wondering what you think of my thoughts? |
I was referring to preflop, saying that the call is +EV even if we only play it for set value, but we need be creative postflop when we hit, since against someone like this who won't have much very often.
I like both your lines. They are better plays in HU, but against this guy, certainly fine as well (better than folding flop).
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
OK well thanks for the comments so far. I decided to call the turn because I figured he still fires a huge range there and I estimated I had enough equity. I was pretty much going to call any river except a total blank, but then....
River: ( $968, 2 players)
RabidDawg goes all-in $792, $734.25 to Hero ($734.25)? |
I think it's a fold, but only because the flop had a wheel draw. Without it I would probably be happy to see an ace on the river (if my plan is to call).
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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i disagree that this is a good flop for our hand in this situation and i usually fold the flop
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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id fold pre some, rarely fold flop, fold turn a lot, fold river just bout always
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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covano
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9
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good fold
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mrholdem05
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One Pair
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
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good fold i woulda had to go all in then there gos my tourny more thatlikey the sevens were not going to hold up next time call just to see thouhg your gut is not allways right
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