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ATOTHEC101
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08-02-2010, 08:11 AM
Post subject: How bad is calling down here.
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Villain is a fairly bad spazzy reg, will take horrible lines as a bluff and isn't afraid to fire multi barrels.
Ok starting with the flop one could argue it's a fold as I'm generally in bad shape vs his range and I'm oop with a meh f draw, but f him that's why.
So I basically gin the turn as I now beat all his draws and other rando air, hence the call, river is a huge brick and he jams, considering his value range is polarised to sets,j9s,a4 d's/h's who likes a call? Another thing to add is that he'd nearly always 3 bet aa/kk here vs me pre due to history and stack depth.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (UTG) ($1637.50)
MP ($1308)
CO ($2000)
Button ($2634.75)
SB ($1594.90)
BB ($1556.25)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6 , 5
Hero bets $35, 2 folds, Button calls $35, 2 folds
Flop: ($85) J, 2 , 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $62, Button raises to $170, Hero calls $108
Turn: ($425) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $300, Hero calls $300
River: ($1025) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2129.75 (All-In), Hero ($1132.50 to call)
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Why not ship the turn? Our hand is too weak as a bluff catcher, although it really feels like he missed and someone better at poker than me is going to chime in "nice hand."
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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meh, flip a coin, 2o sucks a lot since he can put you on a ton of bluffcatchers. id call AJ+ i think maybe KJ+
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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id play same and fold, seems like he got hisself a set
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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What level is he on with the missed diamonds?
Fact that youre UTG makes JJJ a lot more likely too. When you say he bluffs in bad spots, does that mean he's the type that will try to get you to fold your UTG overpair range here when the FD bricks?
I'd like a call a lot more if this was CO vs BTN than UTG vs BTN. I'd fold here on the river.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I def b/f flop. I'd prefer to have some blockers for catching the river shove. Now you are holding blockers to his draws. :/
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
What level is he on with the missed diamonds?
Fact that youre UTG makes JJJ a lot more likely too. When you say he bluffs in bad spots, does that mean he's the type that will try to get you to fold your UTG overpair range here when the FD bricks?
I'd like a call a lot more if this was CO vs BTN than UTG vs BTN. I'd fold here on the river.
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Preety sure he 3 barrels with bricked draws a good % of the time, like I said he's spazzy and not the type to give up.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Way too obvious missed draws. I'd fold.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Way too obvious missed draws. I'd fold.
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It's technically a really good run out to triple barrel given his probably range (some draws, not very strong pairs). Players in cash seem more inclined to barrel when all the draws miss now-a-days. Idk I just feel terrible when someone takes a line that easily can have bluffs and we're folding the majority of our range.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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I stationed, he had 78 clubs.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Yeah but what do you think of your play?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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its pretty obviously good
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Vs this guy it's fine, vs some other better regs I'd fold the flop.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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yeah i agree
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Raoni_Poker
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 265
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In my modest micro-staker opinion (giving opinions it is always a nice way to learn), I think he shoved the river because your range was pretty obvious to him on the river. Check turn, check river isnt strong enough to call a river shove and he realized this.
He puts you on either a missed FD or an overpair (UTG raise) and he can make most of this range fold to a river shove with anything. He noticed that you were willing to go to a cheap showdown or catch a draw on the river.
The problem with his line is that he is also playing with his cards faces up. With a a hand with showdown value, he would not shove river as he did (from which hands he is extracting value with such a bet if he has a reasonable hand here?).
Probably some players at these stakes have adjusted to this and occasionally are able to make shoves like this occasionally with strong hands. However, I think this is not be the case here.
Good call
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoni_Poker
In my modest micro-staker opinion (giving opinions it is always a nice way to learn), I think he shoved the river because your range was pretty obvious to him on the river. Check turn, check river isnt strong enough to call a river shove and he realized this.
He puts you on either a missed FD or an overpair (UTG raise) and he can make most of this range fold to a river shove with anything. He noticed that you were willing to go to a cheap showdown or catch a draw on the river.
The problem with his line is that he is also playing with his cards faces up. With a a hand with showdown value, he would not shove river as he did (from which hands he is extracting value with such a bet if he has a reasonable hand here?).
Probably some players at these stakes have adjusted to this and occasionally are able to make shoves like this occasionally with strong hands. However, I think this is not be the case here.
Good call
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This is very good analysis. As a comment I'd say he may have thought given a fd on the flop and two flush draws on the turn that we would have raised a nut hand on the flop or turn. Also, mid and high stakes players have adjusted strongly to the vbet vs all in logic. Most players show balance by shoving with air and nut hands.
Despite some logic being very convincing to warrant a call, there is also logic against it, one of them being the obvious missed flush draw.
Nonetheless, sometimes we can't give as much credit to what is going on in someones head as we can to combinations of nut hands and combinations of air/missed draws hands that are our opponents range. Certainly, lots of missed fds and air, not many nut hands (JJ, 99, 22)
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