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Lukie
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10-30-2007, 11:14 PM
Post subject: a hand reading exercise
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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villain is 20/15/3 type reg. He's hasn't been getting out of line but is capable of a move every once in a while. Hero has been 3-betting back at him quite a bit.
What kind of range do we put this guy on? How often do you think he folds? Is our shove reasonable (I thought so or else I wouldn't have).
What about preflop... is calling or 3-betting better? What about 3-betting a different amount or making a more conventional-sized c-bet on the flop.. . What about checking???
So many aspects to consider in a typical hand... stuff you don't see in typical threads.
Begin........... wherever. you. wish. (if at all)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG ($199.75)
Button ($613)
SB ($501.10)
Hero ($1481.70)
Preflop: Hero is BB with  ,  .
1 fold, Button raises to $21, 1 fold, Hero raises to $72, Button calls $51.
Flop: ($147)  ,  ,  (2 players)
Hero bets $72, Button raises to $224, Hero raises to $1409.7,
317 to villain he's getting 3:1ish
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
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also its worth noting that 'excersize' is in fact spelled 'exercise'. who woulda thought?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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what made hands do you actually take this line with?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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range is AA/KK/AK/KQ/AQdd/ and it beats us. I doubt he would turn QQ into a bluff just because you cbet smallish.
I think if you want to do a move like this then check raising is better since he bet/folds a wider range then he will raise/fold IMO.
pf is fine.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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preflop is standard. Why such a small c-bet? That makes it more likely that villain would turn TT-QQ into a bluff. Im kinda with spenda though, what other hands do you do this with?
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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1. To make this remotely good he needs to be calling a lot of reraises OTB. I'm going to be calling a lot from the blinds if this isn't the case.
2. IMO his raise size screams flush draw. Most people will balance there lines here raising like 2.5x times your bet to a cbet. It really seems like he wants to commit himself.
3. I tend to never check here, but obviously if you feel threebetting all in is good that's a fine reason not to check. If you cbet i two barrel a lot if he's a pussy/bad.
4. This is also a hand where flow of the table and timing is huge, which makes it really really hard to comment.
Given that you feel 4 made it better i like everything.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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id shove this for value against pretty much any 20/15/3 in this spot
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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so are we saying he 4bets pf AK then?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
so are we saying he 4bets pf AK then?
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its definetely more likely than not.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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so i play good right??
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($436 in chips)
Seat 2: gp333 ($244 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $1
gp333: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gp333 [8s 7h]
Sauce123: raises $5 to $7
gp333: raises $17 to $24
Sauce123: calls $17
*** FLOP *** [Kc 6h 4s]
gp333: bets $32
Sauce123: raises $42 to $74
gp333: raises $146 to $220 and is all-in
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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valuetowning 75?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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no, trying to semibluff him like lukie is doing
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
no, trying to semibluff him like lukie is doing
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oh weird i thought this was obvious value???
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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seriously though what is sauce raising that flop with
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
seriously though what is sauce raising that flop with
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What? I don't doubt he does this with like 77 and felts. Unless this is some hole in his game that of im unaware. surely he has sets AA/KK/AK at least sometimes. But you're going to see 77-QQ and Kx maybe even 6x felt here if I know sauce well (and i do i play him hu a lot)
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
what made hands do you actually take this line with?
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i'd be thrilled with b3b'ing allin with KQ or better on this board given action. Probably any 2 diamonds if given the chance. (flush draws hit at least 50% on stars)
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
range is AA/KK/AK/KQ/AQdd/ and it beats us. I doubt he would turn QQ into a bluff just because you cbet smallish.
I think if you want to do a move like this then check raising is better since he bet/folds a wider range then he will raise/fold IMO.
pf is fine.
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i strongly, strongly disagree with your range here. while obviously all of those hands are part of his range, i think all of them combined even make up a relatively small part of it.
I think the lukewarm hands like QQ or something like K9s get called way more often then raised on this board. I think his really strong/committing raise really polarizes his range and given action and dynamics i still feel like very strong made hands (say, KQ or better) make up a fairly small part of his range.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
preflop is standard. Why such a small c-bet? That makes it more likely that villain would turn TT-QQ into a bluff. Im kinda with spenda though, what other hands do you do this with?
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the plan was to induce a light raise so i could shove to be 100% honest. also b/c it's great for metagame, changes postflop into more of a 3-bet as opposed to 2-bet game postflop, lots of reasons.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
1. To make this remotely good he needs to be calling a lot of reraises OTB. I'm going to be calling a lot from the blinds if this isn't the case.
2. IMO his raise size screams flush draw. Most people will balance there lines here raising like 2.5x times your bet to a cbet. It really seems like he wants to commit himself.
3. I tend to never check here, but obviously if you feel threebetting all in is good that's a fine reason not to check. If you cbet i two barrel a lot if he's a pussy/bad.
4. This is also a hand where flow of the table and timing is huge, which makes it really really hard to comment.
Given that you feel 4 made it better i like everything.
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1. this is a really good point and you're onto something here for sure.
2. i agree, timing tells also suggested this
3. sometimes i check here for balance on these dry K and A high boards because good regs assume that other good regs know that villains missed these boards and are apt to fire here near 100% of the time, so if we can throw them off........
4. i agree, pretty much sums up my thoughts on most of these types of decisions
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
id shove this for value against pretty much any 20/15/3 in this spot
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i wouldn't go this far but i felt like this was a really good spot to do it. YOU'RE CRAZY THOUGH SON SO YOU'D PROBABLY GET SNAP CALLED BY ATo!!
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
so are we saying he 4bets pf AK then?
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guessing 80%
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
so i play good right??
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($436 in chips)
Seat 2: gp333 ($244 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $1
gp333: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gp333 [8s 7h]
Sauce123: raises $5 to $7
gp333: raises $17 to $24
Sauce123: calls $17
*** FLOP *** [Kc 6h 4s]
gp333: bets $32
Sauce123: raises $42 to $74
gp333: raises $146 to $220 and is all-in
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it's hu and u shoved a draw in a 3-bet put heads up in an extremely laggy game, congrats, thanks for the hijack
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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he called with QJ dd
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
2. IMO his raise size screams flush draw.
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